Toilet Suites

Great feedback @HRob.

We purchased a back to wall unit. These all seem to have a range of setout positions and options, whether S or P trap connected.

We measured the floor sewer pipe position from the rear wall. The plumbing warehouse identified the most suitable models in their product lines. The suite was supplied with a suitable S trap adapter kit and seals for our set out.

We could have gone to Bunnings. And instead chose to travel a lot further to get some reliable sales advice. Your warranty options may not include returning a half installed toilet suite?

Back to wall suites also solve the added weight of a ceramic cistern on weak wall problem!

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Perhaps the gold standard for assessing the efficacy of toilets might be the main government buildings in Canberra, Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide, Hobart, Perth, and Darwin where the pollies office and meet.

There would be fewer places on earth where the test would be more rigorous and continuous, plus according to government mandates (when followed) they would be bought on the basis of low cost or highest value, another relevant data point for recommending purchase.

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Those who complain about the flush noise of certain cistern/pedestal setups should consider life with an old fashioned high level cistern. I am talking about one where the tank was on the wall above head high, so the flushing pipe was something like 1.6 - 2 metres long not a few centimetres. You didn’t push a discrete little button you pulled a chain. This was a factor in considering when small children were old enough to go unattended.

The roar of such a flush would be followed by jingles, clunks, rushes, hisses and squeals as the chain danced about and the brass ball float dropped and then slowly rose and choked off the supply; no sound dampening was thought important. The concrete or porcelain tank was often bigger than modern ones and fastened to the wall which ensured maximum resonance. I sometimes wonder if our forefathers wanted to announce their daily rituals to their family or even the neighbours.

If you wanted to save water there was no dual flush, you put a couple of bricks in the cistern. If the valve had a slow leak you would bend the brass arm holding the float down a little to increase the displacement and so the closing force.

Oh the archaeology of plumbing.

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Oh the memories…

And that didn’t just apply to the hardware!

Thomas Crapper’s fault. :grin:

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Maybe not

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Choice updated its review and I for one ask "what is the point’ when it is nothing but a collection of scores (almost all the same) based on water use? Unfortunately ‘tests’ that are nothing but compilations of manufacturer data distilled into scores without further testing or investigation have been increasing, even if still in the margins.

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Something not covered in the review are access to spares. We have 6 toilets, of different makes and models and getting parts for some of the lesser known brands is challenging. Some don’t take standard toilet seat shapes.

To find replacements, it usually involves buying them online or ordering them in at a local plumbing outlet as they are unavailable off the shelf. If one has one toilet that needs to get back in action quickly, this may be a significant impediment to buying those lesser known brands.

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Our brand didn’t appear in the list. We did have a problem getting a replacement for the Raymor plastic flush mechanism, even on-line. Went back to the shop the previous owners bought from and they had one left.

The toilet seat attachment is different to the ‘usual’ replacements, and if I wasn’t so savvy, I would have paid for and left with “this fits all toilets” seat and not bothered to drive 2 hours to return it. I stood my ground and he admitted they didn’t have one that would fit. Poor customer service at that plumbing shop - he wouldn’t sell me 150mm stormwater pipe & fittings saying it couldn’t be, that I wouldn’t know. So I told him I would go to the Pumps & Irrigation people where we bought all our irrigation supplies, and another sales assistant jumped in and rang up the fittings I had in hand; the other bloke was happy to lose a sale.

Another thing - I was hoping for a table filter for ‘frog proof’ flush - I can filter for Rimless and non rimless; but we have small holes in the rim, too small for green frogs to climb up and live under the rim, in the pipe and cistern. Much better flush than our last house where frogs had to be dislodged first before it would flush. And some people would refuse to use it until I had pulled it apart and removed all slimy green things that might jump up on an unprotected bum.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

It’s the big green tree frogs that offer the greatest surprise, especially if there is just a large fingered foot or toes poking out from under the rim. Personal experience is they ignore the goings on until you stand up and flush.

Have you identified the likely point of entry. We found on the farm the vent pipes were not screened and there was a broken connection on the septic tank which provided easy access. Once actioned and the last of the little friends expelled, all was good. OTH one of our sons has a frog problem, as well as a resident green tree snake or two.

Green tree snake and frog, the local version of cat and mouse! :wink:

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The Dau-in-law bought one of these toilets second hand - she said the owner had bought it but the plumber said they were illegal in Qld and would not install it. She did her own installation. Nice idea, but husband who is a large lad has trouble straddling it to wash and now doesn’t use it, the younger kids stand on the lid, the soap has nowhere to sit and ends up turning to gunk in the bottom of the basin. It might work better with more room (theirs is wedged between two walls in what was a cupboard.

Are they illegal in Qld?
image

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Yes, assuming the specific toilet basin and water closet combination meets the relevant standards. See

It could be the plumber didn’t want to take on the responsibly for installing a second hand toilet, particularly if it has a fault shortly after its installation.

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This was a new installation. I am not exactly sure of the reasons. That’s the reason the dau-in-law was given for a $1,000 toilet going cheap on Facebook (?) & no idea why the original owner didn’t take it back to the shop for a refund. Could have fallen off the back of a truck …

Her installation (or whoever she got - not a plumber) was illegal AFAIK as this was a new installation into town water & sewerage. The location certainly fails the ventilation.

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The design is relatively common in Japan. There are usually clear instructions not to use soap with the basin. The grey waste water sits in the cistern, until flushed. There will likely be issues with soap build up on the internals in your example.

Plumbing work is regulated in Queensland. It includes replacing toilets. Additionally each LGA has a set of what plumbing work they require to be notified of and which items require approval. It’s worth checking.

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There isn’t any ventilation requirement for the water basin/closet toilet. Ventilation only applies to composting etc toilets.

Maybe it doesn’t meet the standards and the first owner had problems getting it installed (and why it was cheap)…and may be why the plumber wasn’t interested in its install… assuming the plumber looked at the toilet.

It might be worth investigating further it does meet relevant standards etc…just in case there is a later problem that voids insurance etc.

If it is a Caroma product it is subject to model a legal product.

As an additional toilet, it would require a council approval prior to installing. Conditions vary. The room in which it is installed also needs to meet design standards for ventilation or air space and relationship to adjoining rooms or walk space. There are other requirements specific to the plumbing code including connection details and a vent pipe.

P.S. I’m sure @zackarii is also familiar with the general requirements. It’s extremely unlikely council will post approve. Utilities charges are also assessed on the number of installed toilets. Perhaps the plumber who refused to install did so because there was no approval in place. It is not a trivial approval.

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That does seem to align with the story. That the toilet didn’t fit with the Qld Greywater Code and therefore could not be used as intended - handwashing - which then becomes untreated greywater filling the cistern. The plumber would have pointed that out before installing. Maybe the original owner got one cheap for that reason (a Qld shop that had floor stock, too expensive to move interstate?), and so was willing to sell even cheaper.

The dau-in-law is a sucker for anything “going real cheap” and then had to find somewhere to put it. So the pantry was it, tiny cupboard with no window or light. They have a culture of ignoring rules & regs and no one has caught them, yet, with DIY electrics, plumbing etc, but in the long run it seems to cost them more than a legal installation.

Some years ago I purchased two in-wall-cistern suites as I have little space in the bathrooms I’m renovating & wanted to minimise the amount of clutter in the rooms. They’re a prominent brand, good quality & bought from the big green shed on a special order. As I tend to buy things well ahead of need it was 4-5 years before the first was installed (second is still in storage) & there are observations I’ve made in the ensuing years. When the second one is to be installed I will learn from the first as there are some things I’d either do differently, some things that are “fails” & some that are just a dislike.

  • Flush. At times I find that the water quantity on full-flush sometimes is insufficient to clear the bowl entirely resulting in needing to flush twice, hardly a water saving event.

  • Buttons. Never get glossy/reflective/mirror finished buttons & plates as they are impossible to keep fingerprint free, do yourself a favour & get a “matt” or “frosted” style.

  • Hinges. The seat is soft close with separate hinges. If these two hinges are not perfectly aligned they force the lid & seat to pivot under stress which will cause them to fail & come away after some time. Trying to prove this to the installing plumber has been impossible. Perhaps photograph the install & document any discussion on the perceived problem for future reference. Also the hinge mounting plate is held in with a blind fixing which is galvanised & rusts causing it to seize making removal impossible without risking damage to the pan.

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It might help others if details of the brand and model of toilet/seat can be shared.

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Sorry for the delayed reply. It is a Caroma Metro Wall Faced Pan with Caroma Invisi II cistern (in wall) & Caroma Metro seat (to suit) with soft close hinges (no name or part number).

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