CHOICE membership

The nbn has been forced upon us..!


#1

THIS POST IS regarding the NBN-Co forcing residents to join the NBN network, and threatening to cut off their copper network phone lines within 18 months of the resident being informed that the NBN is now available at their premises…quote from The NBN email i just received in red below…!

"Please also note that your current service disconnection date is the 11/09/2020."

Also in my case, telstra have also informed me that if i do not go over to the NBN network, i will have both my copper phone line service disconnected as well as my cable internet…as quoted in red below.!

"To keep your home phone and internet working, you’ll need to connect to nbn."

As i mentioned to MY LOCAL MEMBERS REPRESENTATIVE, it is not fair that for example; a 95 year old pensioner who has had their copper phone line connected for over 60 years and can use their older style phone without the need of the use of electricity, is now forced to have an NBN black connection box, that requires a 240 volt power source, 24 hours a day, just to be able to use their phone, put into their home.

This is completely and utterly absurd, and nobody in this country, especially the elderly, should be forced to pay additional costs, and have a broadband NBN black box installed in their home just to use their normal everyday phone, when they were quite happy to use their existing phone that they are familiar with and have always used.

According to the NBN both internet and phone services will have to go through their black connection box, with the 4 green L.E.D’s on the front, and in my view, your phone service, and a computer internet service are two separate services and should be treated as such, and if the NBN only put fibre to the node, they will have to use coaxial cable from the node to the household connection point, which in my case is the grey external foxtel connection point.

So their is no valid reason to disconnect the old copper phone lines at all, because even if internet consumers currently using ADSL-2 over their current copper phone line network, they will have to go over to coaxial cabling into their NBN connection box that would be installed inside their premises.

Therefore the copper phone lines could still be left in service, as they will not effect the coaxial connections to the NBN connection black box. Due to fact that their is only the male coaxial connector points on the rear of the NBN connector box, there is nowhere where you can connect bare copper phone line cabling.

I would like to see any current government regulations regarding the implementation, and roll out of the NBN, that are forcing consumers to ditch their current and affordable phone line service, and being told that they have to, by law, go over to the new NBN, to be reviewed, and the mandatory aspect totally reversed, and by the looks of all the negative feedback, and negative reviews in relation to the NBN roll-out, and there are thousands of negative reviews in many different forums, i feel that this review is warranted and also necessary.

These elderly pensioners who have paid taxes all their working lives, must have their wishes respected, and should not be told that if you do not join the NBN you will have your current services disconnected, this is not right, and the rights and freedoms of everyday Australians are being taken away, due to the heavy handed tactics used by this current Liberal Government.

There are many thousands of retirees, who only use their internet for basic services, for emailing, or googling certain topics, and do not need 100-megabytes per second, they are quite happy with their existing service, many may not wish to play computer games, or down load movies, that would require higher speeds, so those who are very happy with the status quo should be allowed to do so, to still have a choice, without the prospect of being subjected to the heavy handed tactics as seems to now be the case. this is completely UN-Australian…!

without prejudice;

NBNHASBINFORCEDUPONU.


#2

There really is no point railing against the NBN. Its here to stay and the best thing anyone can do is find the best solution for themselves.

If someone doesn’t use the net much at all, a mobile service is the best option. This age pensioner has chosen to go with Boost on the Telstra network, which cost $150 for 12 months. That works out at $12.50 a month which is a lot cheaper than any landline offering from before the NBN existed. With that, I also get 6GB of data per month (enough for Mrs Bloggs to do her emailing) and also unlimited local calls and texts, and unlimited calls to “selected countries” but those include the usual, and the call rates to the rest are very reasonable.

I just don’t understand the fuss. My 88 year old cousin has adapted. My 76 year old friend has adapted… and really, both were the last of the luddites, I thought.


#3

As a case of 1 in suburban Melbourne, 1km from the Telstra and Optus towers. Neither Telstra nor Optus services are reliable. A call to my Telstra network SIM rings but I need to walk into my lounge before it is intelligible in both directions. A call to my Optus network SIM will often not ring at all in most of my house, but sends me missed call messages. My immediate neighbours have the same problems with their mobile services, both direct Telstra-Optus as well as MVNOs.

Just because one has great services at good prices they are happy with does not mean everyone else will. I am in the metro area; those in the regions or bush are far more likely to have (to be polite) problematic or no mobile services.

That being written, rolling this white elephant of an NBN back is not going to happen, and fixing it regardless of how will probably not happen in our lifetimes, especially since it is a political ‘statement’ from this government than anything technical, although very much about $$$$$.

Seniors are known to vote Liberal. While the ALP started the NBN the Liberals-Nationals made it into what it is and is not, but I would be surprised if any or many seniors hold these self serve partisans to account at the ballot box, just because of the fiasco called NBN.


#4

@NBNHASBINFORCEDUPONU, many of us have negative feelings towards the NBN.

I recently had the opportunity to put my concerns directly to our local Federal MP and the Federal Minister for Communications. It is very evident the outgoing government is not going to change anything fundamental to change the flawed plan that is delivering the NBN. The NBN is off the LNP agenda this election, with the previous election giving them a mandate to flog it off ASAP assuming they are back in? The ALP is also keeping a low profile on the NBN.

Separately we faced a similar situation to yours with our 90+ yr old Mum/M-in-Law.

The first decision we made was to defer doing anything with the NBN until the last few months before the cut off date. That simply reflected a desire that life is forever vs the uncertainty of the future.

This allowed us time to consider all the options, for technology to improve and a hope for the members of the government to experience a moment before their respective god/s and repent!

Time passed and there has been no miracle.
6 months ago Telstra installed the magic box of lights and switched our ‘mum’ over to the NBN FTTN service.

One of the family managed this and attended for the in home works. This was to be sure the changeover was completed in full on the day and worked. Also that the existing home phone was retained and sat in the same place in the house! The solution is not perfect. Telstra offers a basic home phone service over the NBN that was suitable, although billing is now monthly, which is a pain for a cash over the counter consumer.

There are more sophisticated options with mobile network fall back and battery UPS backup. The mobile phone alternative is by far the cheapest way to go. This assumes the local area has a reliable service as @TheBBG pointed out. Our private home has similar issues with poor mobile coverage. It is not a guaranteed service. Neither is the NBN!

We found there are options for an oversized handset or mobile based phones. Very elderly hands and smart phones or small buttons with failing eye sight do not work. One option:

https://www.olitech.com.au/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIo_Prk8Ge4gIVFoePCh1jwwInEAAYASAAEgI19PD_BwE

Note:

There is a Community topic on NBN for the elderly if you have not caught up with the content.

And a slightly old Choice guide.


#5

@NBNHASBINFORCEDUPONU, welcome to the forum.

What you have posted must be of some concern and I understand where you are coming from.

Just some comments on some of your points:

  • the NBN now has bipartisan/whole of parliament support. It was initially introduced, along with its supporting legislation, by the ALP. Both the ALP and LNP have tickled with the implementation since it was first announced so I personally wouldn’t be pointing the finger solely at the existing government. The existing government just happened to be in power when you had first contact with the NBN in relation to their connection to your residence. If the ALP had won the last election, NBN contact would have been no different.
  • Like all new technologies, there are advantages and disadvantages. You have identified one disadvantage in relation to your future phone line using your electricity (rather than low voltage down the copper phone line which has existed in the past). This electricity use, while modest, will cause a minor increase to ones power bill and a cost which would not otherwise been the case if a decision had been made to retain the existing copper phone network.
  • Following on from the last point, if you need a phone line at all times (say for medical monitoring, emergency contact etc), even through infrequent blackouts, you may need to speak to the NBN about a power safe battery backup solution. While such systems are possible, they also come at an additional cost…that being the battery replacement every few years to ensure work ability when the power is out.
  • In the world of the NBN, there are generally three types of consumers, the first being those who fully support the government investment into the NBN as they often see benefits to themselves through faster internet connection (this could be business or individuals), those who don’t really car what happens as long as the new communication system is as fit for purpose as the previous copper phone network and those who adamantly oppose the NBN (due to technological change, costs or those who believe those who want high speed connection should pay for it themselves instead of the taxpayer etc). This forum has members which have possibly all three views. None of these views are correct or wrong, but what often happens is the views of one own often blinds the differing views.
  • The NBN has been considered infrastructure by the government, opposition, some other parties and some independents. It is the view of the parliament that the NBN is needed, just like a freeway replacing backstreets, to provide better connectivity to the internet in the long term. Unfortunately many new appliances, devices, TVs, medical monitoring equipment, alarm systems etc are not what is called, the Internet of Things (IoT). No one chose for this to occur, but has been driven by market forces and a majority consumer desire to have such products. These IoT require internet connection to function properly, as as more and more IoT products dominate the market, the more pressure it places on the demand for internet bandwidth. Whether these IoT are necessary and make life easier is questionable, but this is the current direction where technology is heading.
  • The ACCC has identified that NBN affordability is a growing issue with consumer paying more for essentially the same service after connection to the NBN. The ACCC has found that the average consumer a a basic (lower speed) plan pays around $10 per month for essentially the same pre-NBN service using phone copper lines and ADSL2+. As this has now been raised by the ACCC and that an additional service cost impost has been identified, hopefully the government (either one after the election) carries out an inquiry in relation to be basic NBN services. As the government is the only current shareholder in the NBN, it has the ability to prescribe basic plan connection costs to minimise additional cost impacts on the consumer. The downside to this is the NBN is a very expensive piece of infrastructure and someone has to pay for it. Reducing basic connection costs will need to be paid from somewhere else or other charges to say to higher speed connection so that they make up the difference.

#6

I’m sorry… I wasnt meaning to say nobody has problems. I was just saying theres no point railing against, until all other options have been explored.

I have a friend in Sydney who has no NBN, whereas I, in the outer subs of Newcastle, do, and have had it for 2 years. Which is a great relief, though on FTTN if the power goes out, so does the NBN.

It is, truly the greatest mishmash, and thanks to the LNP that was (Abbott and Turnbull) we are stuck with it. But, Labor has no plans to try rolling back to FTTP for everyone, so here we are, with a secondrate service. This isnt new. I recall when I moved into this house, I moved from an area which got ADSL and I was stuck on 28.8 dialup for the next 4 years. Thats life. You cope as best you can.


#7

They could … until they stop working. Noone is paying to maintain both internet connection technologies together. That doesn’t make sense for NBN - so unless you are volunteering to take over the maintenance, or can pay someone else to do so, that is a short term option. The first time you get a line fault, your service is permanently dead.

Look on the bright side … to be in the position that you are in, it means that you have a decent NBN option available in your area, which increases the value of houses in your area. Perhaps the increase in value of your house outweighs whatever additional cost you expect to incur.

The increase in your electricity bill is a bit illusory. A conventional phone service still requires electricity but that electricity is provided at the exchange end, and ultimately you pay for that electricity among the costs that make up the price of the phone service.

Probably you mean 100 mega bits per second but there are slower (cheaper) plans available.


#8

And phone-only plans too, which are ridiculously expensive for what they are. I reckon people are just better off taking the cheapest NBN they can find (and that is NOT going to be with Telstra) and taking a phone “plan” as well if they really really want a “landline” (which over NBN is not a landline, but VoIP, delivered via the NBN).


#9

No they don’t have any plans to implement FTTP, short or medium term and only in the hints can one see a very long term view to do it. They do propose a move to FTTC as much as possible in the FTTN areas and this paves a way for easier uptake of FTTP in the future.

Most of the reasoning of not going to FTTP is the huge cost of removing the MTM NBN “mishmash” and then implementing FTTP. There is no roll back to FTTP unless you are just talking about purely policy and law. MTM NBN was always a very poor choice but the LNP succeeded in getting elected and promoted the “cheaper and faster to build” nbn™ we have today. There is only one Coalition to hold to account for that decision and they did it knowing how bad it was.

Labor would, even if elected and given the go ahead, to build FTTP as originally envisioned would face huge backlash over the cost to do so. The proof is simply in the backlash they suffered already from LNP and voters over their prior vision.

Who forced the nbn™ as it it exists today on us, us the voters. We (the populace) were told what service we would likely get to have with LNP’s nbn™ ie 25/5 guaranteed, we were told a political story of how much it would cost and what timeframe it would take, the experts told everyone that it was a load of feacal matter out of the rear end of a male bovine and none of those hollow promises held up. We then accepted the political spin over reality and now a lot of people are disappointed, /sarcasm who would have guessed that the spin was just spin? /end sarcasm

To remove MTM NBN and procure FTTP nbn™ would cost as much again (and perhaps some more) to do so. Plus there would be much more disruption while doing it as a lot of the copper service that enabled ADSL and phone in the interim has been removed. After the last episode of trying to do FTTP who could blame Labor from shying away from doing it now.


#10

thank you Sue for your reply, and your interest in the above matter, Yes i agree with you The NBN is here to stay, and nobody is disputing this fact, the whole premise of a liberal Government to force individuals to have no choice, no say, in the way they prefer to have their own services within their own household is absolutely ridiculous.
By all means if the government wish to roll out an alternative way of using the internet, so let that be, but please do not force the entire population of Australia to accept whatever is thrust upon us. All most people want is to have a choice where they can remain on their existing copper networks which have served them well over their lifetimes, or if they choose, some may wish to go over to the newer technologies, which may suit their own requirements.
The general Feedback i have received is much more negative than positive, and you can look up the NBN feedback and complaints page to see for yourself that all is not well, and sometimes just because the technologies are newer, does not always make them better.
NBNHASBEENFORCEDUPONU


#11

Other than the large amount of money to be saved by not having to maintain a second network that is well worn and in too many cases already unreliable.


#12

With the benefit of a couple of decades of technological development, noone wants to have two sets of wired communications infrastructure to your house operating in parallel (unless you specifically arrange and pay for that yourself). It is viable to unify voice and data over a single wired infrastructure - and that is what has happened. The traditional phone network is not adequate for future data needs and so the inexorable logic is that it will go away. Not today completely because of the politics of it. But eventually.

If you are deadset to keep your traditional phone line then move to an area where the only “NBN” internet option is satellite. Then NBN rules say that you can keep your traditional phone line, I believe.

Alternatively, as you have done, attempt to persuade the parliament to do it your way.

To be honest I am unclear as to what your actual objection is. Mostly people will focus on what the service is and not how the service is delivered. If it is just the cost and there are genuine cases of financial hardship then that is something that the government can address (through subsidy), while not adjusting the entire telecommunications strategy (such as it is).


#13

THANK YOU the BBG, for your contribution, and your interest in the above topic, i agree with you on all the points you have made, and it mirrors almost to the word, what many others have experienced on many other social media sites, the whole handling of this over the last 5 years has been a complete shammozzle to say the least, there’s even been cases where the householder has had to go out in the street and help install his own service… “nbn hassles man has to help connect his own modem.”…https://youtu.be/6mc6xOYupEs?t=60


#14

thank you so much, Mark m, for your input, your interest and your contribution to this post, i am sorry to hear of you and your families bad experiences, and im surprised the labour Party have not seen fit to make this part of their election issues, and as i replied to Sue.W, in my earlier reply, and i quote…" By all means if the government wish to roll out an alternative way of using the internet, so let that be, but please do not force the entire population of Australia to accept whatever is thrust upon us. All most people want is to have a choice where they can remain on their existing copper networks which have served them well over their lifetimes, or if they choose, some may wish to go over to the newer technologies, which may suit their own requirements.

The general Feedback i have received is much more negative than positive, and you can look up the NBN feedback and complaints page to see for yourself that all is not well, and sometimes just because the technologies are newer, does not always make them better. nbnhasbeenforceduponu"…unquote, i am currently emailing NBN representatives in relation to this issue, thank you again Mark for your support…NBNHASBEENFORCEDUPONUS.


#15

thank you for your reply, your belief is not entirely unfounded, but according to the NBN website, only very few individuals will have the option to keep their existing copper phone service, whereas 95% will be forced to abandon their existing service and go over to the mandatory NBN installation.


#16

thank you Syncretic for your reply, all replies are welcome, whether they’re for, or against the mandatory changeover to the NBN. i also refer to your point that the existing phone line services are unreliable, the same could be said for all our overhead electricity lines that have been in service for well over 75 years, i don’t see them being replaced anytime soon.
The general Feedback i have received is much more negative than positive, and you can look up the NBN feedback and complaints page to see for yourself that all is not well, and sometimes just because the technologies are newer, does not always make them better. nbnhasbeenforceduponu


#17

What difference does it make?

If you use your existing fixed phone handset and it works the same functionally, and provides the same quality of service, and the same reliability, why would you care how it is implemented under the hood?


#18

I wasn’t addressing the broad issue of whether one should replace ageing infrastructure, or when.

My point was having already replaced it for whatever reason there is no reason to run the old system in parallel with the new and pay considerable maintenance costs for doing so.


#19

That is a good point, excepting NBN is not ‘under the hood’. The NBN is more like the steering wheels, brakes, and transmission and you cannot blindly ignore the lot of them. While a PSTN phone was plug and play the NBN exposes lots of bright shiny boxes with blinking lights that often requires an IT literate person to deal with, as well as phone support (how do you call your support if your NBN is down? - Oh yes, that fully charged mobile :roll_eyes:) to wade through the settings and manage or oversee tests that once were all done remotely by your PSTN carrier.

I trust my point is made even if imperfectly presented.


#20

My question was around “why would you care?” to the person who started this discussion i.e. among all the theoretical reasons someone could come up with, which ones are the actual reasons?

Edit: As the person is apparently not currently using the NBN for a phone service, many of the reasons must remain theoretical. If the service had been changed over, and it was crap, then fair enough.

Wind the clock back to the pre-internet era, how do you call technical support if your phone is down. Go next door? I don’t know but it’s not a new problem. The fact that a mobile is today an option is a good thing. (Maybe use the internet on the mobile to raise a fault report, as a cheaper option than hanging on the mobile phone for 45 minutes.)