CHOICE membership

Thanks For Nothing, Anti-Vaxxers


#55

I didn’t say anything about that, it seems to have been attributed to me in error.


#56

Ahh just cut it from your post in reply to @tpeter267. I will adjust it now.


#57

If someone is short should we try to cure them of being short? If someone is an introvert should we try and cure them of being introverted?

All the Autistic people I know (including multiple family members) are offended whenever someone suggests curing it. It’s simply how they were born and yes it doesn’t always make life easy but trying to “fix” their brain requires first deciding it is broken. And a lot of Autistic people are upset that people believe they are broken, and not that we as a society just need to adjust to cater for the extra needs they might have.

So in that way demanding a cure for it is actually quite upsetting for many Autistic people. It also crosses a line into trying to artificially modify how people think to make them “normal”.


#58

Depends on the problems it presents for the person. A cure doesn’t have to be used but if it is available then it is usable if needed. Introverted at what level and whether the person affected desires to be different to how they currently are, some are clinically not very well and require medical intervention, same goes for short or tall, if one is affected so that they desire a different outcome why should a cure not be a reasonable response if it is available.

Normal is a large portion of a broad bell curve, as are those who have autism…there are many levels and for some it is also a great drain on their families. As the ABC show about a family with 2 autistic children/adults the other night, the father said if a pill was available he would be using on his two affected children but he also understood it would change them. He loved them regardless but would take the cure in hand if it was available.


#59

When you say “Clinically not very well” I’m guessing you’re referring to the more extreme symptoms that come with Autism. These are often related to other sub-conditions that can be separately addressed, or can be treated without any playing with someone’s brain.

And your second paragraph there highlights my exact point. Autistic children can be a “drain.” As can people with many different physical or mental traits. And a lot of Autistic people are upset at the fact that people see them as needing curing because they have those requirements. So although I respect that father’s opinion, I disagree with the concept that he should be able to change his children’s brain so they can be easier to care for.

For the record Autism runs in my family, and my brother is impacted enough to require disability support. He was the reason I initially believed in a cure for Autism, but he’s since convinced me away from that view for the reasons I described.

Overall a cure would significantly negatively impact people like my brother. It would give society a free pass to say ‘We don’t have to accommodate you because we’ve cured you.’ This is why anti-vaxxers in particularly infuriate me, because they often support this.


#60

Introverted people…some are clinically not very well at all.

Sure there are some who have ASD who do not desire to be “cured”. Some of them refer to those who desire a cure or cures as curebies. I acknowledge that right to be the person they wish to be, but you then exclude those who do desire change by saying “shouldn’t be cured”. You by disallowing a choice not to be cured, are taking the right away from those who do. We have ASD in our family and I know some of them would prefer their lives to be different to what they have now and I would not rob them of that choice if it was available.

Anti-vaxxers use the flawed/incorrect/erroneous/wrong information about vaccines as part of their reasoning to avoid vaccination as they believe it could cause autism, not the only reason why they think people have it but one of the reasons it could be caused to their mistaken belief. They also avoid them because some wrongly think there are acids, mind altering compounds, and similar in the vaccines that will do them harm. Sure some people who get vaccines will have very bad reactions but so do some people who get stung by a bee, or drink milk, eat nuts or peanuts, eat meat, eat vegetables, eat fruit, drink water, and an almost endless variety of other things in this world. Do they stop eating and breathing because it might affect their unborn or growing child? No, but they continue to cause the rest of us to be placed in danger by their false beliefs, this is why I don’t like their stance.


#61

I know anecdotes aren’t a great way of looking at things (it’s a big one used by anti-vaxxers) but I’ve just never met an autistic person who wants something that “cures” them. Plenty want stuff to deal with a few extreme symptoms (one of my friends gets seizures for example) but otherwise they want to keep their personality. So to them a cure just seems like a distraction from making society more accessible.


#62

Tom Barnett from the Involuntary Medication Objectors Party, who is against mandatory vaccinations,

Lets see what primary vote he gets.


#63

I’ve never followed how to vote cards. Even the LNP and ALP have learnt from the experience of optional preferential voting and automatic distributions through negotiated preference deals.

Outside a handful of marginal seats in the country for Labour and in the cities for the Libs the election result is likely decided. The Nats some suggest are simply hoping not to become extinct?

For the more tightly contested seats, it appears strategy wins over principle every time. The Nats in disguise in Qld as part of the Libs are putting Palmer ahead of the ALP. Clive left the LNP as a member and donor years back vowing to bring the LNP down. Short memories there too.

None of this makes moral sense!

P.s.
Hopefully enough of us vote according to conscience and not blind allegiance. Science has it that lemmings are socially like humans in many ways, although mass suicide is an attribute lemmings do not possess.

Mass stupidity?

Disney film White Wilderness which won an Academy Award for Documentary Feature and in which producers threw lemmings off a cliff to their deaths to fake footage of a “mass suicide,” as well as faked scenes of mass migration.

Perhaps a more human trait?

For the approximate science and facts.


#64

This is one of the issues with politics. Most parties would sooner have a lunatic in power than someone they disagree with. And that does tend to benefit the Anti-vaxx cause


#65

And now for today’s episode of “You just can’t help stupid”.

Kentucky teen who sued school for banning him for not getting vaccinated for chickenpox catches ths virus.

You have got to love karma.

Germany has proposed a 2,500 euro fine for parents who do not get their children vaccinated for measles.

The WHO has again warned regarding the measles epidemic as 34,000 cases reported in just 2 months in Europe.

Hepatitis A cases are surging across the USA.

Only around 25% of Australians vaccinated for flu so far this season.

https://thenewdaily.com.au/life/wellbeing/2019/05/07/australia-flu-season-2019/


#66

An amusing article regarding countering an anti-vaxxers “logic”.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/lifestyle/smart-living/doctor-changes-anti-vax-mums-mind-by-inventing-conspiracy-theory/ar-AAC82cF?ocid=spartandhp


#67

And now for today’s episode of “You just can’t help stupid”.

Firstlly, an article about the development of the first vaccine and the rise of the first anti-vax idiots.

Next, an article regarding charlatans in the USA claiming that their quackery can prevent measles and cure autism.

And finally, the rise of the anti-vax idiots in Australia.

Perhaps the proposed human head transplanting may also be useful in curing these anti-vax idiots.


#68

Anti-vaxer children’s future problems when they realise the benefits of vaccination (or risks of not being vaccinated)…

With many Australian’s being travellers, the risks of getting a preventable (through childhood vacconations) disease increases substantially. A memory one may not wish to have of their overseas holiday.


#69

A couple of interesting articles regarding the history of vaccinations.


#70

A first person report of how it is to be without vaccinations, and how virulently ignorant antivaxers can be.


#71

We have friends which haven’t vaccinated their children and also wont’t let their children have any medicines (they and some of their other friends call themselves ‘earth mothers’). They also believe that a mix of essential oils are far more powerful than medicines (which is believed is a conspiracy between government and pharmaceutical companies, just like vaccinations). These essential oils are dolled out when someone in the family get sick with a cold/flu or other ailments. When they get better (which a healthy person would do naturally in most cases), this seems to support their theories about the power of natural (unproven) remedies.

We used to sometime talk about such things we we caught up for a BBQ, but now the topic is so sensitive, that we and other friends avoid it like the plague.

To me is is a belief system and not based on facts…and it is a little like challenging a christian the over the existence of god.

I just hope that their children, when they grow up, have the foresight like to the brother and sister in the article, to reconsider vaccinations against commonly preventable disease. As many Australian’s travel overseas (which they plan to do in the future), it is imperative that one has taken all the necessary steps to protect ones health. Disease don’t discriminate, but vaccinations and medicines can reduce the risks.


#72

And now for today’s episode of “You just can;t help stupid”.

They say that money can’t buy happiness.

It appears that it can’t buy intelligence either.


#73

I found this TED talk interesting, the link is to the transcript tab so you can read or watch …

Interesting for a couple of reasons, including that Ethan worked this stuff out and sought out the jabs despite the family position, which is brave, also how he was treated by other spectators and the media, which seemed very hard and in some cases grossly misrepresenting the true story …


#74

And today’s episode of “You just can’t help stupid”.

https://www.themercury.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/mum-absolutely-gutted-over-family-demands-for-vaccination/news-story/5d61395c70e96065f8eb1e8bfa32fd7e

Fortunately, the baby’s parents are more responsible.