Tests show 5G wireless potentially 60 times faster than NBN

[phb]

@mark_m

simply because users share capacity

I wonder as reported…that since there will be a higher density of 5G transmitters/receiver (due to penetration limitations), if the number of users for each box will be less than exists for the existing towers. If this is the case, there may be more bandwidth per user.

I also expect that for each generation the data load of users will increase as they exploit the potential of the technology. It is likely that many residentiial consumers, if 5G proves cost effective (to say existing fixed line and 4G) may rely nore on wireless technology placing greater load on the network.

[mark_m]

@phb

If this is the case, there may be more bandwidth per user.

It appears a reasonable prospect, assuming nothing more changes in our technical environment.

Perhaps too there may be many more users added that none of us foresee?

There has been much made of how 5G is an enabler for IOT and In supporting autonomous operation. All a benefit of the low latency of 5G technology.

It’s not the capacity of 5G that is the question. It’s the honesty and transparency of the marketing that requires closer scrutiny.

[Drop_Bear]

Another perspective from Paul Budde:

The 5G answer to the second-rate NBN

[mark_m]

@Drop_Bear

Another perspective from Paul Budde:

Wowsers, String Theory!

An interesting metaphor in so many different ways.
Aside from the fact that the average consumer may find string theory not only more useful than the NBN, but also easier to understand?

Apologies to Inspector Gadget. He’s nothing like Malcolm Turnbull.

[Drop_Bear]

It might be fast - if it works:

Optus Is Releasing 5G Phones But Its 5G Doesn't Work Indoors

[grahroll]

A nice few lines in the article put the problem of indoor reception plainly for all to read:

"The disclaimer at the end of the most recent 5G press release states: “In-building 5G coverage is not currently available. Local conditions, including number of users, building materials and terrain may impact your ability to connect to the Optus 5G network and the speed you experience.”

In other words, the 5G capability on the phones does not work indoors.

However, this information is far less forthcoming on the telco’s own website. The lack of indoor coverage isn’t mentioned anywhere on the Optus 5G landing page – even under the ‘coverage’ section."

It would appear that to get 5G indoors you will have to get a device or devices s to allow the signal to be used in a home/building something like the Repeaters now used to improve Mobile reception in marginal quality of signal areas for 3G and 4G devices. It could add a lot to the cost of getting decent/usable home reception.

[Drop_Bear]

@grahroll

something like the Repeaters now used to improve Mobile reception in marginal quality of signal areas for 3G and $G devices.

Freudian slip?

@grahroll

It could add a lot to the cost of getting decent/usable home reception.

And it would only work at home. Good luck trying to use your 'phone inside a different building.

[grahroll]

Freudian slip? yes most likely it was I have adjusted it, I am grateful for the pickup.

As to the second point, I think it will eventually be a needed consideration even if the occupants or owners of a premises don’t personally use a 5G or further generation G device. Every public building will need to start introducing some amount of Repeaters as many of their workforces & visitors/customers/clients rely on mobile tech eg BYOD, company issued phones etc. An added cost, & inconvenience that may not be factored in to many of their financial considerations.

[Drop_Bear]

@grahroll

An added cost, & inconvenience

And undoubtedly, some people will insist of wearing aluminium foil headgear. If a mobile 'phone transmitter near home bothers them, then one in the same room will probably send them apoplectic.

[postulative]

@grahroll

Every public building will need to start introducing some amount of Repeaters as many of their workforces & visitors/customers/clients rely on mobile tech eg BYOD, company issued phones etc.

If that is anything like a local WiFi access point then no thanks. I already turn WiFi off when I leave home - will I have to worry about my phone’s 5G connection as well?

[grahroll]

You may be able to limit the bands your phone uses to disallow 5G, though most would have 5G as preferred if available. I am not sure all phones allow band setting but a lot would, this is used to stop the phone shunting between bands when in areas where some bands are weak. It isn’t quite the same as wifi and your phone encrypts the data it uses, with wifi you need to actively encrypt the data before sending over a public wifi to protect it. Still if using mobiles, 5G, 4G, 3G are all able to be intercepted and read, you only have to look at the interception by newspapers in the UK and what they did with it there.

[Fred123]

An interesting article which claims that 4G performance will improve as heavy users migrate to 5G.

The unintended side effect of the 5G network

[syncretic]

@grahroll

In other words, the 5G capability on the phones does not work indoors.

So what will they do to fix it? Increase the effective transmission signal strength or the receiver sensitivity, both?

Some are nattering on about 6g or 7g which are further up the spectrum. Doesn’t this mean the signal will be more directional and less penetrating? At what point does the physics of propagation mean chasing bandwidth for greater transmission speed become pointless for general communication using handheld devices with built-in aerials in offices and homes?

[grahroll]

It will most likely require an outdoor antenna on the house/building with repeaters or repeater inside to carry the signal, remembering that interior walls and wiring etc will also block a lot of the spread of the signal. If using a car with 5G it will most likely require an external antenna. Skin stops 5G so most obstructions in the way of the signal are going to block it, that is partly why they will need so many towers outside as well as to deal with the distance that 5G works well over.

By Towers here I mean some sort of transceiver to both receive and send 5G signals so could be very small installations but a lot would likely be required.

Increased signal strength won’t make any difference to getting through an effective shield such as a wall, if a signal is blocked then even sensitivity of the devices antennas won’t make a difference either for reception or sending of signals.

Outside, close to the tower/s with unimpeded line of sight you will get great speeds using your 5G device. Anything else will be sub par or non existent over 5G…

From an article on 5G and it’s penetration (https://www.forbes.com/sites/annatobin/2018/05/25/could-5g-have-trouble-penetrating-buildings/)

"5G technology is not without its challenges, however. Significantly, there are two different parts of the radio spectrum that are being used to deliver 5G and one of these frequencies finds it harder to pass through objects, confirms Einbinder. "These are radio frequencies that are similar to current cellular frequencies, this is what is called Sub 6 Gigahertz, and extremely high frequency millimeter wave bands, commonly abbreviated as mmWave. At these frequencies - such as the proposed 28 GHz and 39 GHz - radio behaves differently. These short wavelength mmWaves are much more easily blocked by tree leaves and by your body.

“And, to make matters worse, they are quickly absorbed by the air. That means that even without obstacles, they may only travel less than a kilometer before petering out, whereas conventional frequencies can easily travel several kilometers and often more.”

Thankfully, 5G even in mmWave bands can be made to go pretty much where ever it needs to go, reveals Einbinder, but it’s not a simple or cheap process. “If a mobile provider is building out 5G mmWave services in an area they will need many more cellular base stations,” he says. “Now clearly an operator can’t put up a big cell tower every 1,000 meters. But you can imagine small cells on every tenth utility pole in a neighborhood.”"

[postulative]

@grahroll

“Now clearly an operator can’t put up a big cell tower every 1,000 meters. But you can imagine small cells on every tenth utility pole in a neighborhood.”

Yes, in some neighbourhoods. Sounds like yet another episode of Australia’s cable roll-out, and another area in which competition is idiotic because of the duplication in some areas and ignoring of others.

[Drop_Bear]

This is not new, but does give some useful real(ish)-world perspectives.

Bear in mind that News Corp is no friend of the NBN:

Game changer for home internet

Optus (among others) is “all in” on 5G. This had better work!

[Geoff2]

Is this going to lead to NBN FTTP customers being offered more speed but don’t mention anyone else?

[grahroll]

Likely those on HFC or FTTC will be able to get some speed improvements. FTTN, FW, Satellite are already behind the 8 ball. But lo and behold 5G is the answer by Optus’s thinking:

'Cheaper and faster than NBN': Optus 5G Home could undercut NBN

But 5G still will rely on the nbn™ backbone and interconnects to work at it’s best.

[mark_m]

@grahroll

But lo and behold 5G is the answer by Optus’s thinking:

And still subject to congestion at peak hour, just as the NBN FW service chokes today. Optimistically 5G at 60 times faster than the NBN FW will choke at 3-6Mbps x 60 =180-300Mbps. Give or take the back of a cigarette packet for predictions.

FTTC and HFC have built in upgrades that will equal or better these rates with existing technology. It would be wonderful if instead of hype there were some real world costings and capacity estimates to hand. Promises vs facts? Bugger competition and commercial in confidence secrecy. If the public owned NBN can keep it’s secrets, so can Optus?

The NBN co published one view on increasing data demand in the FY2020-2023 Corporate Plan.

It is doubling every 2.5 to 3yrs.

It will not be too long and we might need every option available. I doubt though they will bring a 5G cell to the end of our road just for the 3 or 4 they could service. Although it might be handy to remind any misguided AI guided vehicles they are about to fall over the edge of the world.

[trevor3]

Pehaps 5G will be a small box on the light pole at the end of your street. “They” are talking of 5G being used for self driving cars so 5G is going to be everywhere one day.