Supermarket Carparks and 4 Wheel Drive Vehicles

[kemba_1959]

What about people who don't tow anything, and simply have one to use as parking bumpers? Don't tell me that's not their main function.

[kemba_1959]

Thanks for your offering to collate responses. I do agree with the suggestion below that in shopping centre/commercial car parks, that if larger spaces are provided for these vehicles, the parker pays more to park their larger vehicle. It shouldn't be for the shopping centre to filter additional costs through to the shop tenants, who in turn would pass it on to the rest of us. Don't know how it would be policed. Our local Council carpark has licence-plate recognition, so maybe this is a way to ensure a greater fee is paid for a bigger space. After all, space is money!

[TheBBG]

You will not and cannot solve societal ills by more revenue generating laws. We already have too many laws, most of them being far too verbose leading to confusion, and many are obscure, yet we can be and are often fined on the technicalities.

For your wish you would need to categorise exactly what is and is not a 4WD for the purpose of your law. License plate recognition would require coordination with (eg) Vicroads data. Are you aware a Toyota Aurion is a large car but a Camry is a medium car? Both have the same body. Is a Renault Captur or a Mitsuibishi ASX a 4WD, or only a Pajero or Landcruiser size for your purposes? A Renault Koleos, a medium SUV, is listed as a Car/Truck body type -> Wagon.

Since you are going to charge based on park size, let the Hyundai I20 or Fiat 500 use the 4WD park and pay for it. Right?

Be careful what you wish for. You might get it in unexpected ways.

[kemba_1959]

You're right: they are societal ills, when the purchase of a much larger car than that which would otherwise meet your needs is dictated by what image you want to present, aspirational desires or by 'keeping up with the Jones'. If they can afford the extra purchase price and the petrol they consume, then additional parking costs shouldn't be an issue. The hip pocket hit is a market device used in many sectors in our economy to modify behaviour. High interest rates encourage people to save, low interest rates encourage people to borrow money to purchase investment properties, etc. I'm sure we could work out what would constitute a 4WD/SUV for the purpose of charging for parking -or simply have the dimensions of your vehicle. That's not going to worry the guy in my street with two Range Rovers and a big Jeep. Smaller 4WD's like Nissan X-Trails, Honda CRV's or Subaru Forresters would attract a lower fee.

[kelly.dohle]

First Costco visit this week, most impressive was the space between car parks! I have a disabled pass and didn't need to use it as I could fully open my doors both sides. Somebody has got it right!

[trevor3]

Increasing the size of car spaces would reduce the number of parking spaces available. How much wider would you like spaces to be?
Something like the width of disabled parking would be equal to removing every fifth car space.
Our shopping centre park is usually full. Shopping centre traders rents are based on the number of potential customers walking past the traders front door.
A twenty percent reduction in spaces means less potential customers or less revenue for the shopping centre.
This would mean changing their business model and in the end a higher cost per customer for the traders and higher prices for you when you shop.

Costco have their own warehouse carparks, very large trollies and a different business model.

[mch]

The last thing we need is more rules and laws.
There is a lot of intolerance on our roads.
Bicycles vs cars. Trucks vs cars etc.
I gather from reading these posts that some people would like a law for a person to have to justify the type of vehicle they wish to buy, unless it's a small car. Why don't most people use a scooter then, as in Asia. Road congestion and parking would be solved considering our small population.

[mcglashansally1]

Yes we really don't need more rules, maybe supermarkets should design their car parks with slightly more generous spaces as vehicles have become super-sized, look at today's Mini - its huge. Bit like aircraft seats which have shrunk yet bottoms have increased in size - maybe we need rules for that situation too

[mch]

I totally agree.
The powers to be take every opportunity to slug the poor old motorist.
Some people have a set against anyone with a large car, usually deeming the vehicle to be a 4wd, whether it is or not.
But airlines would be very timid in charging passengers by weight I reckon.
Although I remember flying in a light plane and everyone had to jump on the scales first haha

[natural.thought]

maybe supermarkets should design their car parks with slightly more generous spaces as vehicles have become super-sized

I don't think that accommodating cars that are too big will fix the problem of people buying cars that are unnecessarily too big because they feel the need to 'fit in'.

[tracyd]

respect and common sense should prevail, a sedan parked between larger vehicles is dangerous for the sedan driver backing out it limits all visibility, larger vehicle owners who want to feel safe being higher should have a thought for those in smaller cars, is there really a need for large 4 wheel drive cars in suburban car parks and streets?

[mch]

If you have a need for a 4WD, does that mean you must also own a small car as well to go to the shops?

[pgray4]

But, have you ever noticed how Audi drivers seem to break the speed limit all the time. How about getting a cab to the supermarket and making your day one of pleasure. I recently did this and it was excellent!

[vax2000]

I found the following document relating to the Victorian State allocation of car parking spaces for businesses within a shopping centre etc . I would certainly not want to be the person who determines how many car spaces were allocated .
http://planningschemes.dpcd.vic.gov.au/schemes/vpps/52_06.pdf

[tndkemp]

@tracyd, Sadly 'common sense' is not so common these days and respect is a skill that seems to decline with successive generations.

[natural.thought]

I also see many Audi drivers who abide by the posted speed limits. You're interpretation of Audi drivers could be a great example of confirmation bias: you subconsciously fit new and existing data to a preconceived hypothesis, therefore falsely justifying your claim.

That being said, car sharing can be a more sustainable option compared to car ownership, so good on your for investing in a better future.

[mch]

We all agree that in Australia we are over governed. Federal, State and local council.
Some of the suggestions posted here would lead to even more rules/laws.
How about get back to teaching manners at home and at school and then there will be no need for any more proposed rules.
Someone on this thread suggested getting a taxi to the shops, $100 round trip for me and the driver probably cant find the place.

[jen]

Unfortunately it can make access the boot impossible, especially with a trolley.

[jen]

I have been thinking about and redesigning supermarket carparks in my head for years!

My design would have:

1. reverse in, angled car spots

2. One way driving lanes accessing the parking places, with parking on both sides

3. No pedestrians on driving lanes. Pedestrian walkways (and trolleyways) are behind the boots of the cars--walk in safety and stay out of the way of cars. Easy access to the boot for putting shopping away. Trolley storage here too.

4. Safety/guidance features to help with parking--bumps, ridges, posts, to feel and see where to park easily, and so as block any encroachment on the walkways.

5. A fair number of short term spaces close to the entrance. Sections for larger vehicles. And a few "drive through" places for cars with trailers etc.

6. It's also possible to arrange the lanes so that traffic flow is maximised.

Benefits
Reverse in/forward out is much safer for all concerned--fewer accidents.
Pedestrians are kept separate and safer.
Trolleys are kept off driving lanes.
Excellent access to car boots, including with a trolley.
Much less stressful for everyone.

I could demonstrate better with an image, but don't think I can upload one???

[tndkemp]

Never fear, self driving cars will solve the problem, they will drop you at the door and go find a parking spot, and when you are finished just recall the car via the app and it will pick you up.

As the self driving car doesn't have an occupant when they self park they can park closer together because the doors will not be opened, therefore more parking spots and they can go off site if they cannot get a spot at the place you are shopping.

Science fiction? in fact it is science fact as some euro manufacturers are playing with the concept now.