Does anyone know how a ‘community battery’ system works? Who / how feeds in and how can use? What’s required to set up one? Other issues? Thanks
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I have read with interest a number of the posts, and I find it interesting that Solar and Batteries, mostly come down to economics, at least for some. I was wondering if the same people look at an ROI for updating a Bathroom, or a Kitchen and how they would calculate it.
I had 29 panels put in about 5 years ago and a battery two years later. Never calculated an ROI as to me it was a home improvement and I treated it the same as a Kitchen renovation. Interesting though three weeks after the battery was installed, the area was hit by a freak storm and a tree came down across the power lines and took out most of the suburb. Nine days later power had yet to be restored to our home, or the rest of the street.
Our house still had power, the solar panels charged the battery during the day and kept everything working at night. Nine days without power, what is that worth in an ROI calculator?
I had a Tesla battery and I did like the fact that I could charge the battery to 100% from the Grid if I required it when storms were forecasted. Just an additional piece of comfort.
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Calculating the return on an amenity gets very subjective especially if trying to put an exact dollar amount on it. Questions of the usefulness and looks of a kitchen cannot be answered objectively. I do like a functional and low maintenance kitchen. But some alterations that would be an improvement, such as stainless steel benches, are not worth the money to me. There comes a time when you think “this is enough”. So I don’t calculate a ROI but I do consider value.
This applies to your battery because the inconvenience and possible cost of power outages is worth the investment to you. You may not have computed a ROI or you ignored it, but you did consider if it was value, as you see value. This is of course is assuming that you looked at the issue from that point of view before the purchase. If not congratulations on your accurate hindsight.
Others may not have such a problem with network outages or they do not rate the outages they have as very significant in effect. So they decide that if they are not going to be financially in front the added cost of a battery is not worth the small amenity provided, as they see value.
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Especially a car! For most people, the second-most expensive asset they buy, with less than 10% (most, less than 5%) utilisation!
We’re a bit dumb, having obliged ourselves with massive urban sprawl to use a car each several times each day just to attend to the basics. All cities in the world were walkable until 100 years ago.
Many, outside of USA, Australia, and UK, still are.
The people of Oz are concentrated in the cities but there are still a few million who are not, how will they manage with no car? The cities of 100 years were very much smaller geographically and in population, so how will you achieved walkability today?
All this is way off topic for solar batteries. If you want to talk about urban sprawl and vehicle use you could start a new thread.
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Computer broken. Silly lttle telephone screen and keyboard only, so won’t create new thread right now.
In summary: Perth (not walkable) and Barcelona (100% walkable) have about the same population, but Perth is 42 times as big as Barcelona.
We had a top quality 5kW solar system installed at the end of 2017 and even with rising electricity prices our bill for this calendar year will be lucky to reach $250. That’s for 2 of us, a retired couple who spend a lot of time at home in a 29sq double storey house.
I cannot see the point of spending many thousands of dollars on batteries when our bill is so low!
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That’s remarkable, especially for such a large 29 square home. Assume it’s typical of many who were able to use the opportunity at the time to improve their homes. The 2 of us in a 12 square home can relate similar low costs for electricity over the previous years due to a decision to use savings for a 5kW Solar PV.
As consumers we regularly make high value decisions about our homes or lifestyles. Not all consumers have the means or even a home/equity to draw on. For those of us who can are all our choices economically rational or easily justified by common accounting?
The cost of a battery upgrade to a home solar PV system appears a poor economic decision. Is that the only reason not to? Compared with many of the other large financial decisions we make on a regular basis, it’s a question only those of us who have the means to upgrade with a modest home battery can answer.
Noted:
- 1 in 8 Aussie homes have splurged on an expensive swimming pool. It’s 1 in 5 where we live in Qld.
- Many larger Australian homes feature an additional large room set aside for a home theatre and $10-$20k of electric chairs, screen and sound system.
- For smaller homes the backyard colourbond double garage extension, complete with out door BBQ area, with SS kitchenette, drinks fridge etc is seen as a useful addition.
- When purchasing a car how many oft for optional accessory packs or upgrade to the next level at a cost of $1,000’s or greater if an off road 4WD package.
There are those who purchase caravans, or boats, an overseas holiday or decide on a kitchen parade for the home. Having had 3 homes with pools, and other hobbies/toys, many nice to haves come with added annual costs we happily justify to one and all.
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It depends on the location of the home i.e. the climate in that location. Does the home need a big air-co unit for heating or for cooling or for both?
It depends on the passive solar design features of the home and other energy efficiency features of the home. Two-storey homes tend to be more tricky for passive solar design.
It depends on whether the home also uses gas for any part of its energy needs.
As you yourself write, it depends on whether there is a pool to be cleaned and heated and whether the pool heating, if any, is separate from electricity consumption.
Being at home a lot of the time allows load shifting so that consumption can be shifted to occur at the times of peak (or at least excess) generation.
5 kW is a relatively modest system these days so probably the poster is doing well but there are too many variables to know for sure.
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Agree. Some of us have done very well out of that choice.
The low cost of electricity noted by @gcovo reflects our bills from previous years. The increases this year and latest price increases, for us from December 2022 suggest a very different future. I’m cautious suggesting any reference to prior bills are a reliable reference for the coming year or even the next bill.
It remains for those interested and with the spare funds to ‘add value’ to the home with a battery. Well done to those who decide that is for their future. My preferences would prioritise a BEV. That’s a better outcome for us personally, and arguably also great support for a home battery. Speculatively the next generation of home batteries will use a different technology to that of BEV’s. Weight and size are not critical for a home battery, while long life and low fire risk are winners.
There are unrealised benefits from distributed batteries and increased BEV uptake to deliver better grid utilisation. There is a significant cost benefit that is absent from the current discussion with one exception.
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Outer south east Melbourne suburbs. 10 year old home, double glazed windows, ducted gas heating, ducted evaporative air conditioning.
I spend quite a bit of time each year analysing the data output from our solar system (every 15 min) and choosing the most cost effective electricity supplier, something many people don’t bother doing. Increasing power costs and decreasing FITs make that even more critical now!
Our bill for all 2020 was under $100, last year around $120 with small discount for Health Care card. By coincidence just received our bill for last month. $21 and it was a poor month for solar with many wet and cloudy days. I expect remaining bills for this year to be in credit.
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Indeed. That has pushed me from being in credit overall for each year to a small bill overall for a year (sub-$200 but I won’t know for sure until the final quarter bill comes in and it will surely be a credit). I expect that FITs will only get worse.
Every house is different though and each customer’s circumstances are different - so it is difficult to generalise.
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I read yesterday that solar panels will be 80% effective when they are 30 years old. We’ve had ours for 9 years and they seem to still be going strong.
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As revealed here the battery systems may not be what they are advertised to be. At least not when there is a high demand system. Once could reasonably ask why an alternative system was not proposed and installed after the initial raft of failures, eg 3 systems in lieu of one that could not operate properly, but when a company with the media attention of Tesla cannot do it?
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Tesla some might say is like all of Elon Musk’s endeavours - a work in progress.
News.com.au does say,
Under Australian Consumer Law, consumers are entitled to a refund or replacement when a product has a major problem.
Although as the purchase included a business purpose it’s likely it’s excluded from that protection as it was greater than $100k. The $240k system was obtained through a verified Tesla installer.
Tesla may have significant technical capability to deliver reliable solutions (EG Hornsdale big battery). Perhaps the residential Powerwall product is better suited to household intermittent support than a core element for a commercial scale off grid system.
Note:
There are successful Australian businesses which can design and supply high capacity off-grid commercial PV/battery systems. The economic benefits are greatest where there is an offset from the high cost for the mains to be run to your property.
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Finn’s latest blog somewhat contradicts his earlier posts about the efficacy of ‘sponge’ tariffs.
and
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Some fluff followed by Finn’s guidance and doing the maths.
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For us the monetary value is not the prime reason, while it is useful to have some savings from installing the battery (not enough to offset the cost), our main reason was stability of power supply during grid outages. Some in our household have the requirement of medical devices that need to be powered almost 24/7. The battery ensures the needed continuity, so value for money saved it likely isn’t, yet value for life it absolutely had paid itself off within a year of installation.
Previously we had petrol Gen sets that had to be plugged in, this then isolating us from the grid. Often this required midnight sorties to set up and shut down.
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It’s very informative.
The greater benefit is how it could work out for those on a ToU or similar Cost Reflective tariff.
IE Plans that deliver cheaper power outside peak times while charging significantly higher rates for peak consumption.
Network tariff reform to move all customers to cost reflective tariffs is a work in progress.
Despite the agreement of all the governments participating in the NEM to implement the changes progress varies by retailer, distributor and regionally.
Finn also shows how a home battery can be assessed if you are on a single rate (flat) tariff.
As an aside:
How resistant the industry (retailers and distributors) are to the changes which may encourage more solar PV owners to install batteries is unclear. Every home battery installed has the potential to reduce consumption reducing their income. At the same time charging of home batteries can soak up some of the daytime generation currently exported, for self consuming or export reducing the demand for higher cost gas or other peak time generation.
Interestingly distributed generation including rooftop solar and storage is recognised as one of the key elements in the industry roadmap to zero carbon.
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