… seems like it will be cashless when the supply chain finally dies - no need! 
2 Likes
We applied for a CBA credit card recently despite having no mortgage on our 10 year old property, 2 very good cars paid for with cash or savings and 2 rental properties with equity of around $750,000 after loans paid out. We’ve always paid our Westpac credit card off in full every month in the 20 or so years we’ve had it.
Only wanted to change as CBA rewards are far better. Only applied for half the credit with CBA that we have with Westpac. Very, very frustrating given our houses have always been mortgaged with CBA as is one of our rental properties. 14k limit with Westpac. Retirees for 7 years.
2 Likes
I was reading this with interest. I’m a secondary card holder and even with assets I’m not sure if I would be successful even if I applied because I only have a casual job and that income goes straight into a bonus interest account.
But the thing I wanted to point out is that recently we applied for to get NBN for our disabled son who has just moved into an apartment so that he would have internet (his main source of communication and social contact). I noticed most ISPs or telcos require Credit Cards for their plans.
Does this mean if you don’t have a credit card you’re essentially being denied the ability to access some services?
With so much requiring online access these days (banking, Mygov, power companies etc.) there should at least be other payment options on offer.
4 Likes
Most allow pay month by month by direct debit (automatic or manual), BPay or other options. Here are some examples of the more popular RSPs:
Credit card is usually one of several payment options and an account can be created with a RSP without need to provide credit card details.
3 Likes
I had to find one that was affordable for my son (on disability payments) I did look for other payment options because I would have opted for direct debit for him, but the only option was for credit card.
Even mine and my spouse’s mobile phone plans required credit cards, a requirement for ‘all new customers’ but the provider was one of only a few which offered a small monthly data allowance (6 gb) as we rarely use mobile data (i barely use 2gb) and couldn’t see the point in paying for something we wouldnt use.
So while some companies offer options for payments, they don’t necessarily offer suitable plans.
1 Like
A Visa/Mastercard Debit card will work. Most banks issue these cards and these are accepted and can be used in most places credit cards are used. There are exceptions as highlighted above when travelling.
You are welcome to name the RSPs/businesses to allow members to confirm the above.
4 Likes
It took some looking around but you are right, there are debit card options, just not made very obvious. Thanks for your responses.
3 Likes
If an Australian RSP accepts credit cards, they will accept Visa/Mastercard Debit Cards. A business can’t tell if the card is a credit or debit card when processing a transaction or setting up direct debit. The business will only know if the card is valid from the card number, expiry date and CCV provided to them. From the business end, the cards function the same. The only difference in operation is for a debit card you need money in your account to allow a transaction to be processed, whereby, one needs sufficient balance on a credit card to cover a transaction. A business still gets paid for either transactions.
The only way they will know it is a debit card is if you tell them or you present it in person and they see wording ‘Debit’ on the card. Presenting cards when travelling is where we have had issues. We have successfully used a debit card to secure the booking which resulted in a ‘headache’ when presenting the same card for the booking on arrival.
3 Likes
Not fully correct. I believe merchants can tell from the scheme (Visa or MasterCard) network card number whether it is credit or debit card.
2 Likes
It is true looking at a card relies on it being labelled as ‘debit’ but the card numbers actually identify whether it is credit or debit. The card number identifies the issuer and the program. Clearing and validation systems 'thus ‘know’.
Try https://binlist.net/ on your own cards to confirm the numbers reveal all. Only the first 8 digits are required to ID the issuer and program and the remaining digits identifying ‘your card’ are not entered.
2 Likes
That is correct, but such information does not come through the payment system. Checking whether a card is either debit or credit would require an additional processing outside the payment system. This would be need to be done manually or a separate coded step during the payment process to try and automate the process. Separate coding means that the credit card details are being transferred outside the payment systems which has enormous security issues and possibly would be in breach payment agreements.
Manually also isn’t possible unless the credit card numbers are given verbally to a RSP or the RSP is using a payment system which keeps credit card details for anyone to review. Again, an enormous security issue.
2 Likes
The point was not the payment system, it is that the card identifies itself as a debit card by its numbers and the issuer and program (debit, credit, premium, etc) can be easily ascertained including by a processing system.
1 Like
As indicated, while it may be easily ascertained, it is not practicable or likely possible for a business to do so.
Processing systems we have used don’t provide details of whether a card is a debit or credit card. The only information provided is the brand of card (Visa, AMEX, Mastercard etc).
Whether a card is debit or credit has no relevance to a business (unless for those specific reasons when travelling as indicated in an earlier post) and is not required to process an payment.
The gain the information about the card type would require queries outside the payment system.
2 Likes
Despite your protests to the contrary, it is both practical and possible if their processing offers it.
From Stripe. That you might not accept Stripe is a payment system becomes a semantic argument. It processes payments for its customers.
1 Like
Interesting article & comments. Recently had a fraudulent debit on my credit card (which the bank investigated & re credited) and I canceled my card (as per banks recommendation) and applied for a new credit card albeit a basic no frill cards with a low limit AND the bank declined my application stating I was a high risk. Now I own my home , have no debts, have a healthy balance & a Government defined benefit pension & still bank said I was a poor risk. HOWEVER, Upon discussing this issue with my local branch with whom I have a good relationship I was able to get a new cards after a 4 month wait. Thank God my wife had her own card
3 Likes
It can automatically block Visa/Mastercard Debit cards if the coding is used. It doesn’t notify the business during the payment process that a card is debit or credit allowing the business to chose whether to accept the payment of not.
The issue being discussed is notification through a payment system that a card is either credit or debit, giving the business the opportunity to refuse/accept payment based on the card type. This doesn’t occur to my knowledge or from information available. A business taking a credit/debit card details won’t go outside their payment system to check if a card is a debit or credit card before accepting payment. The POS payment systems are a secure system. If they do make enquiries outside the POS payment system, I suggest that they should be reported as it has the potential to significantly compromise the security associated with making payment.
Some EFTPOS/POS payment receipts list whether a card is either credit of debit and the business can see this information post transaction. This is possibly displayed for the benefit of a consumer as they can have multiple cards and listing the card type makes it easier to determine the card which has been used.
As also indicated, whether a card is debit or credit is not of importance to a business (unless it is one of the limited examples presented above in relation to travelling). A business, like a RSP, won’t care if it is a debit or credit card…they are interested in obtaining payments and having payment approved. As the credit card companies indicate, their debit cards were created to be more or less equal to credit cards, with the main difference being where the monies for payment come from (an account or balance on a credit card).
If a RSP accepts a credit card, they will also accept a debit card. If they chose to use Stripe coding for some reason and block a debit card transaction, I would be taking my business elsewhere.
2 Likes
Your original contention was about the inability to discern a debit card excepting by its label.
It is clear they can even if the action is not applicable to any particular account or industry.
If they chose to block all debit cards they can, and if they wish to block debit cards from being valid for debit accounts they can do that also. Why they would is not relevant here.
Also Stripe was used as an example and is not a unique provider with a unique processing service.
The business obviously can chose to accept all or no debit cards as well as using other criteria of their choice. You are correct it is not a per transaction, yet can be a business policy decision.
On that we agree.
I hope we can also agree this horse has been sufficiently dealt with.
3 Likes
I worked in IT for 40 years and have seen all the major banks’ systems go down for a variety of reasons. Hence my wife and I have credit cards with two different banks to cover these outages. She is also a secondary card holder on my main credit card and I was worried when I died she could not use that secondary card. The hoops she needed to jump through to get her own card were many and varied. And from a bank she has had a relationship for over 50 years.
It was weird providing bank statements from this bank showing her income from investments and super over the past three years. Didn’t they have all this information already? Yes, but they have a process and obviously tighter rules now for providing credit. Also junior staff with no approval/exception capability.
5 Likes
Not neccessarily.
Some businesses like accomodation and car rental have a delay between the start of service provision, and end of provision and hence payment.
They use a pre-authorization hold on funds to be sure that when final payment time comes, they will get the funds transferred from card issuer account to the merchant account. Often the hold amount can be higher than the final amount charged.
The issue is that the hold times are often different for credit cards, and debit cards. It depends on the card issuer rules, operating under the rules of the payment system.
A preauth hold may automatically lapse after a day for a debit card, but remain in place for up to 30 days for a credit card.
A hold that automatically lapses after one day is not much security for a business like a hotel, or car rental, so they may well require additional or alternate security to use for the hold, like a credit card or perhaps a cash deposit.
They will know the card type and issuer from the card number, and their card system can decide what to do. Just don’t accept debit cards, or accept some but not others based on the card issuer hold rules.
The hold rules could be ascertained when the pre-auth hold request happens. Not up with the details of the actual message sent via the payments platform, or the response.
But the hold rules are guided by industry type the merchant is in.
3 Likes
I agree it is relevant to some industries travel related were discussed earlier. I thought I had mentioned that in the train of posts.
Being in the industry we don’t have information on card types and both debit and credit are not segregated out/treated differently.
In relation to pre-authorisation, the experience we have had us these occur on presenting the card in person on check-in or when collecting keys for a car (other businesses allowed to do pre-authorisations may be different). We have come unstuck when using a debit card for securing a booking and then the card being refused when sighted as a debit card on check-in/picking up hire car keys. I haven’t heard of any accommodation or car hire providers doing pre-authorisations without card presentation. In days gone by, pre-authorisations were credit card imprints on carbon paper. Today we find they are card wipes with details held by the service provider.
It should be worth noting pre-authorisations aren’t relevant to RSPs for phone or internet, but relate to hotels/accommodation, vehicle rental, cruise lines, boat rentals, trailer parks, bike rentals; and transportation, passenger railways, bus lines.
I suppose this works when there is an outage with one financial institution only. If it is say a blanket communication fault, no cards will work whether credit or debit.
With Visa/Mastercard debit cards, these will work if the corresponding credit card works.
Do you have a Visa and Mastercard (or other) to cover a scenario when one provider is out and not the other?
2 Likes
