CHOICE membership

Raw milk warning


#1

Milk and cream are a digestive irritant. Unless its raw milk of course but have to do that homemade as its deemed illegal to consume. Naughty me. Theres another story for you, even though in the OLD DAYS it was as common as water.

NB: Transferred from premium ice cream taste testing


#3

Raw milk is illegal to sell for consumption as it grows large numbers of bacteria in between the cow and your mouth resulting in frequent illness. So if you’re into that I’m not sure we can convince you that if something is energy rich and easily digested it doesn’t matter where it comes from, it’s equally unhealthy.


Do you need to pay a premium for the best tasting ice cream?
#4

I can’t find any scientific literature that points to this assertion so if possible some references would be great to support it. I did find FDA warnings re the usage of Raw Milk and I have included them below:

" Raw Milk May Pose Health Risk"
https://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm232980.htm

" Raw Milk Misconceptions and the Danger of Raw Milk Consumption"
https://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodborneIllnessContaminants/BuyStoreServeSafeFood/ucm247991.htm
(has citations of supporting evidence)

“The Dangers of Raw Milk: Unpasteurized Milk Can Pose a Serious Health Risk”
https://www.fda.gov/food/resourcesforyou/consumers/ucm079516.htm


#5

heres a start

https://bodyecology.com/articles/avoid_pasteurized_foods.php

Not interested in government funded / potentially influence vested corporation studies

Has to be totally independent studies to be viable and funded independently which obviously doesnt happen too often

For me a pint of raw milk goes through me beautifully whereas a pint of pasteurized gives my guts grief and doesnt energize me even organic. I am very healthy mind you so my body tells me when its unhappy whereas the average joe might not notice any difference. Thats what i go by


#6

Sorry but the source of Dr Weston A Price (Dr of Dentistry) in the quoted article is not a satisfactory level of proof to meet the requirements of peer reviewed research. If you find raw milk suitable for you I am not one who is going to stop you from using it. But there is strong proof that Raw Milk is and can be dangerous to consume. There is proof (rigor of testing and thus confidence in results) that pastuerised milk is safer, is not significantly degraded in terms of nutrition and thus a preferred source.

To say it has to be totally “independent” studies (both as a means of carrying it out and funding) to make it a good study and thus “reliable”, is fraught with potential bias and errors in the results. What makes a study independent and correct? Robust methodology that can be repeated by others and that confirms the findings regardless of who paid the money for the study is probably a good starting point to say it is independent of influence.

I am however unlikely to convince you of this and so will just agree to disagree with you on your choice of sources.


#7

Weston Price died 70 years ago. The foundation bearing his name that is a major speaker for the raw milk movement in the USA was founded in 1999. So which authority being quoted is unclear. The reference to preserving the life force of your food was an indication of reliability to me.


#8

The source was noted at the bottom of the article “Price, Dr. Weston A., “Vitamins in Immunity and Growth,” WestonAPrice.org.
http://www.westonaprice.org/archive/wap2.html

Also the disclaimer at the end was quite illuminating " These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. " (Their bolding not mine)


#9

That link gives me a 404. On the foundation site there is an article of the same name by somebody else so I am still confused about what Price actually said.


#10

Davo the article you linked has TOTAL conflict of interest. It’s on a website that makes money off selling their ‘natural’ products. And the more they convince people natural=good, the more money they make. That’s far more conflict of interest than a university study where steps have to be taken to ensure neutrality.

Also you specifically mention ‘the average joe might not notice any difference.’ Did it occur to you that perhaps if you’re the only one noticing a difference it could be the extremely well documented Placebo Effect?


#11

As i said its just a start, theres plenty of old and new info.
I cant blame you and others for thinking like you do, i used to think like most of the population a few years ago and think we are all being looked after
I had a serious digestive problem that the quacks couldnt fix that sent me on the road to holistic remedies as my digestive issues were causing all sorts of problems.
Once i fixed myself up holistically i felt like a young man again. As you can imagine as i went along the holistic road i learnt a lot about how to stay healthy and what is actually good oil for our engines. Problem is there is a lot snake oil out there, just look at the supplement industry, but theres an ad on tv for it being supported by a well known face, it must be good…


#12

I know this is off topic but, @davo, I’m so glad to read that you have found a way out of your health problems, whatever the means.
Best wishes for continued good health :slight_smile:


#13

Back in the 1980’s when our children were young, the milk in Cooktown was supplied by a local dairy farm which had a herd of cows which were certified TB free

It was unpastuerised and unhomogenised and had a thick layer of cream at the top of the bottles.

It was delicious but then Malanda Milk (Dairy Farmers) bought the operation and shut it down so that Cooktown then got the same pastuerised, homogenised milk that all of North Qld received.

When we lived in Herberton when I was young, my grandmother would leave an aluminium saucepan at the bottom of the front stairs with coins for the number of pints she wanted.

The milkman arrived early in the morning, and when we got up, the saucepan would be covered in condensation. The milk was not pastuerised or homonogised.

Whilst I was going to school in Cairns, Dairy Farmers started homogenising their already pastuerised milk, claiming it made it more convenient fot consumers.

The consumers responded by claiming that Malanda Milk was skimming the cream off, and what they were now selling was what was formerly used to feed pigs.


#14

I read a story this morning about a woman who was attacked by a jaguar after jumping a barrier to try to take a selfie. It made me question, from a point of view of not wishing harm on anyone, at what point can you no longer stop people from self harming due to undertaking behaviour that is clearly dangerous?

In the case of raw milk, it is illegal for a reason and has been attributed to multiple deaths due to the bacteria contained within the product. Here are some more facts on raw milk. Whatever the legality, I hope people avoid this product for their own health and wellbeing. There are also many milk alternatives for people with digestive issues related to dairy.


#15

I have drunk raw milk straight from the cow, and also after being filtered and chilled. Delicious and a full flavour missing in the usual store bought milks.

As the health benefits claimed are largely unproven, it’s just down to a matter of preference. If you want to drink raw milk, it’s important to know how it has been handled, treated, and stored.

It’s all about safety:
National Center for Biotechnology Information - (On-farm food safety programs lead to the reduction of unpasteurized milk outbreaks

Warnings:
. CDC - Questions and Answers about Raw Milk

. CDC - Exposures to Drug-Resistant Brucellosis Linked to Raw Milk

. Healthline - many raw milk health claims aren’t evidence-based and don’t outweigh potential risks like severe infections

The bottom line is that even with standard on-farm testing, people can get very sick from raw milk. Best practice handling can reduce the risk, but it is still there.


#16

An issue of our times that comes up often when considering the safety of products and services, both of which are consumer matters. It is a question of your philosophy but that does not make it airy-fairy and irrelevant because it has real world consequences. My take is that it comes down to drawing a line between the responsibility of the individual and society.

Taking your example of the selfie with a jaguar it is hard to see how this injury is a societal responsibility. If you go to considerable effort to provide warnings and to keep dangerous animals and spectators apart what else should you do? The Darwin Awards are given in jest but there is a serious message inside.

Another example is lock out laws in the Sydney CBD. I have seen and been subjected to the problem of drunken louts misbehaving after staggering out of a bar late at night and nobody should have to deal with that. But is is a the lock-out a sensible solution if it stops the majority who are not louts from having a good time?

It has never been explained to my satisfaction why enforcing the responsible service of alcohol rules cannot do the job. If the drunks leave the venue sober and then drink to excess it is not the fault of the venue. If they enter already drunk and are served more or I they enter sober and are served enough to get stupid it is. Both of the latter two possibilities are forbidden under RSA rules. So can anyone explain how the venues are not major contributors to the problem? Why is impossible to not serve drunks? The good citizens wanting to celebrate have lost their freedom to the minority of louts and the publicans who enable their folly.

Back to milk. Prohibiting the sale of raw milk comes under the category of protecting the innocent. It might be acceptable for foolish parents to risk their own health but it isn’t acceptable for them to risk their children’s. This is the same logic as compulsory vaccination of children.

The sad thing is that rather than have an real debate about these matters it becomes political. It gets thrown into the meat grinder of “culture wars” for the purpose of provoking outrage and motivating an emotional vote for some party - getting a consensus outcome is not the prefered outcome. Both extremes of the spectrum are guilty and this shows us another reason, as if we needed any more, to not empower extremists.


#17

I love Dr Karl’s concluding statement:
“Raw onions only make you cry, but raw milk might make you die.” - Dr Karl


#18

If you accept that the genre is all about sighin’, lyin’, cryin’ and dyin’ this thread has the makings of a great country song.


#19

Your response is golden :rofl:


#20

Interesting observation:

I recollect that all milk sold in Qld from the 60’s onwards had to be pasturised, as required by Government legislation. It was certainly the practice in the 70’s when I was one of those exchanging the empties under the front stairs for full bottles and collecting the loose change in payment at 3am each morning. Few “milkos” looked like Benny Hill’s Ernie. Too much running in an out of front yards with heavy crates of full glass bottles to exchange. This does not make provide me with any expertise in milk products, only expertise at running into goldern orb spiders or away from untethered great danes.

Pasturised milk (Gold Tops in BrisVegas, other districts had red or even silver from memory) has a layer of cream at the top of the bottle. This does not signify untreated or raw milk. Homogenised milk production commenced in the 70’s with all major production in the SE of the state converted by 1980. Regional areas of the state took a little longer to adapt.

note: Bovine TB (Mycobacterium bovis) is not the primary reason for pasturising milk although protection from it is one of the benefits of pasturisation. Cattle with TB are culled for health reasons as a primary control. It’s a reportable/notifiable disease. @BrendanMays has covered the health risks/issues with raw milk in his prior comments.

Anecdotally my grandmother who grew up on a farm including dairy cattle circa 1900 was brought up on cows milk - always boiled for good reason before consumption.

Mycobacterium bovis is not the major cause of human tuberculosis, which is caused by M. tuberculosis, but humans are susceptible to bovine TB. Humans can be infected both by drinking raw milk from infected cattle, or by inhaling infective droplets. It is estimated in some countries that up to ten percent of human tuberculosis is due to Bovine TB


#21

As I recall, the labels on the 2 litre plastic bottles of milk from th Cooktown Diary had the information regarding the herd being certified TB free, otherwlse it was displayed on a poster in the store.