PayPal / eBay Issues (1)

Thanks Leslie, this is exactly the line of thinking I use when purchasing. That’s why I’m so surprised. This is an Aussie seller who sent me the counterfeit cards. He had a price that was good but not absurdly low, and 10 out of 10 positive feedback. In hindsight, that low feedback total should have been a red flag to me, but I overlooked it.

been there, done that… when i started using ebay i made a few mistakes (ie. the camera in my last post). since that was $1800 i quickly learnt my lesson that all that glitters, etc., i still buy ‘junk’ from china / asia, but i now know that i’m buying junk. frankly though i think it’s time aus retailers realised there are alternatives - i buy my levis from the us - paying on average $70au incl postage. try buying a pair in aus for that!

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I have had better luck with paypal previously. After buying “Genuine” HP inkjet cartridges from an aussie seller on ebay, they were flagged as counterfeit refills when inserted in the printer and only half full. After weeks of back and forth with the supplier and ebay, I lodged a refund claim with paypal. I supplied a scanned copy of the printer report of the cartridges and a screenshot of the original listing page. Paypal found in my favour and refunded my money. The whole debacle took two months but I never had to send the cartridges back to anyone. The seller then harassed me to change my feedback due to getting a refund! I sent them a rocket, stating that negative feedback would hopefully deter others from being stooged in the future.

yes, it’s well worth checking sellers feedback to see their ‘trustworthiness’. i always leave honest feedback even when pleaded with by the seller to change negative opinions. most of which i leave for very long delivery times.

also worth noting that a lot of chinese companies now seem to have false ‘item location’ data. ie. item location in australia but posted from china. this really angers me and is very misleading.

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In the past I have written off the cost of an online purchase rather than go through the “return” process due to the cost of returning that purchase.

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I see Paypal has just announced a change in their refunded return policy, namely:

Changes to Refunded Returns
Refunded Returns can give you a refund on return shipping costs for eligible purchases. If you haven’t already done so, you can opt in for this free service at PayPal.com.au/Returns or in your PayPal account.

If you’re already enjoying Refunded Returns, here are the changes that we’ll be making soon:
* You’re now eligible for up to 8 refunds per calendar year, rather than per anniversary of the date you first activated the service.

  • We’ve increased the time limit to submit your refund request from 14 to 30 days from the date you shipped the item back to the seller.
  • We’ve increased the time limit to submit your supporting documents from 7 to 14 days from the date of your request.

A step in the right direction and one to activate since it is ‘free’. It should be automatically opt in rather than manually though.

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Hi everyone,

I have an update and a question! Firstly the update - Paypal has mysteriously refunded me the full cost of the claim without so much as a message to tell me this was happening, or even an automated transaction email. I found this very odd so I called their customer service number and the refund was confirmed. The reason given was that “you have been with us for 10 years and we value you as a client” pffft…

While I’m happy with the outcome, Paypal admitted they refunded me at their own expense and have not bothered chasing the seller. THIS IS WHY THESE CRIMINALS PROLIFERATE! Not even a slap on the wrist, no account suspension or investigation, nothing.

This leads to my question - what is the best and simplest way to report this negligence by Paypal, so that it might be looked into by the ACCC or other regulatory body? Is there a tip-off site where this kind of inaction can be reported? Surely Paypal, like banks, would be required by law to do SOMETHING about suspicious and potentially illegal activity, such as monitor accounts, report them to another organisation etc…

As a start, I think I’ll let Samsung Australia know about my experience and that Paypal is letting the counterfeiters go about their business unobstructed, even declining my offer to provide evidence of criminal activity by the seller.

My main objective as a ‘resolution’ to this post is to have an archived thread of useful advice that others might find useful in future when they run into a similar situation. If people can easily get info on where to report counterfeit goods, eventually something might be done about it.

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@deevo101, I’m glad to hear that Paypal has given you a refund. I wonder if operationally eBay is a better target to clamp down on dodgy sellers, assuming you are still willing to file a report. I’m considering your original comments on the difficulty in filing a complaint with eBay, and that the primary issue here is with the vendor and not the intermediary. That’s not to say Paypal have not played a role, but I’m just offering my opinion on a potential strategy to take things further. Also, if I’ve misread the situation, then please feel free to correct me.

I ran this past our consumer rights advisers, and there’s not much I can add to the high quality information others in the Community have already provided. I agree that FOS is probably not the ideal body for a further complaint, but would encourage you to go to Samsung, the ACCC and your state or territory’s trading body, as has been mentioned.

We appreciate the comments here, and I’m sure this thread will help others who find themselves in a similar situation. Thanks again for sharing your experience.

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Thanks Brendan

I think you’re right that eBay has more incentive to crack down on dodgy sellers.

As far as PayPal is concerned, I believe eBay split PayPal off into an independent company a couple of years back. The backstory is that PayPal was such a huge success that it was being undervalued while incorporated into eBay’s shares.

Thanks again everyone for your input!

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While it once was, ebay spun off PayPal into a separate publicly traded company on July 18, 2015. There remains some incestuous governance.

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@deevo101

It is best to lodge a complaint with ebay as they manage the sales platform while Paypal is the payment system/platform. Lodging a complaint with ebay is still possible and strongly suggest that you do to protect other buyers from having similar experiences…I would hope that previous buyers made such complaints so I was not caught by something which was preventable and known.

The link to the complaints area in ebay is in my previous post and is here.

The only way to prevent counterfeit items being sold to unsuspecting buyers is to lodge a complaint with ebay.

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Did you try reformatting the SD cards? I had a similar problem with USB storage. Try reformatting from FAT32 to NTFS

Thanks @PhilT, appreciate the correction :slight_smile: I have updated my post.

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lol cos sure, their washing machines and batteries are sooooo safe and awesome…

I had one of each… gah. Next phone… Sony ! lol

Their dispute resolution process sucks big time. They couldnt care less if they tried.

I use H2testw on any new memory keys or cards I buy; it saves an awful lot of potential pain later. I cannot say that I have ever encountered an 85 hour scan, but that may be because of the reported size.

In fact I have been in the OP’s situation - only I got there semi-deliberately. I saw a price on Ebay that was just ‘too good to be true’, and figured that it would be easy enough to check and get my money back. Except then Ebay told me to send the USB key back to the seller… in China! I didn’t even think about the illegality, I just pointed out the unreasonableness. I don’t now remember what happened in the end, but am pretty sure I got my money back. It may have been through the credit card provider, or through the supplier not doing what they needed to do.

It is worth bearing in mind that you can report a fraudulent transaction to your credit card provider, and they will normally cover it.

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@deevo101 As someone who has fought his share of quixotic battles, I hate to say this but… walk away. The reality is that ‘everyone’ knows Ebay has dodgy stuff on there. Everyone knows that bad merchants pop up and get hammered back down every day. For Ebay and Paypal, paying off the customers who have been bitten by one of these merchants is simply part of the cost of doing business. They cannot catch the bad guys, they cannot stop the bad guys without making their services too painful for the average person to use.

As for Samsung, or the ACCC, or any other company or industry body - they do not have control over the counterfeiters and they do not have control over Ebay or Paypal. You can make all the phone calls, write all the letters, even talk to all the politicians - but nobody can stop the frauds except Ebay and Paypal, and to them they are simply part of the cost of doing business.

As hard as it may seem, just let it go. You cannot win that fight.

Finally, while it isn’t a perfect predictor (some accounts get hacked), make sure you check the seller’s rep whenever you buy something from Ebay. Odds are pretty high that the account you bought from had less than 10 feedback, meaning most people would assume they were a scammer. Also, if their rep is below 1,000 check whether it was earned from selling or from buying (if it was all buying, and they are now offloading a whole warehouse-worth of goods, it’s a stolen account). There are ways to use Ebay (relatively) safely, and plenty of guides out there - including by Ebay. Read up on the safer ways to use the site - and always ask yourself “is this a scam?”.

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Hi i purchased a couple of thongs from china via paypal. Both of these items were significantly not as described. Paypal dispute process is requesting me to send items back. It will cost me the same as what I paid for the item!
I think this is a scam. Is there any way around this?

Thank you!

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PayPal should reimburse the cost of return but I’m not sure of the upper limit of this. If the cost is above this then working out if it is worth the hassle and possibility of not getting your money back is a tough decision. ACL even if you purchase from an overseas company allows the recovery of return postage costs, this however is difficult to pursue if they have no Australian presence even with only something like EBay. A particular peril of buying from overseas is this very problem of when a product isn’t right.

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See here:

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