You neglect to reference the infrastructure required to do so. At the moment anything resembling that in government hands is what?
A priceless entry on the AussieBB Help reinforcing how good it is.
Can I call 000 emergency services using VoIP?
Yes, you can call 000 emergency services using VoIP. However, it is recommended that you have another landline or mobile service available in the event that you have to make an emergency call. Aussie Broadband accepts no responsibility for you not being able to make or receive emergency calls while your service is unavailable.
It is recommended that emergency calls are made from your primary landline, for the reason that your landline service is more stable in comparison. For example, your landline service is not likely to be susceptible to service disruption and isnât reliant on your internet service being active to make or receive calls. If the power is out, your VoIP adapter will fail to work. It is recommended that you have a nonâpowered telephone handset at your residence to make emergency calls with in the event of a black out.
âIt is recommended that emergency calls are made from your primary landline, for the reason that your landline service is more stable in comparison.â? Words escape. If NBN based VOIP is not our new and wondrous primary âlandlineâ, what is?
Is there any actual data on number-of-nines availability for a phone service via NBN (e.g. fibre)? and then compare it with a PSTN service?
Is there any actual information regarding failure modes for a phone service via NBN?
It is not as if the PSTN never experiences failure. It is not as if the mobile network never experiences failure. (In the last 12 months I would say that I have had both go out, for a day or more, but fortunately not both at the same time.)
The advice to have multiple calling options available sounds like good advice in all situations.
There may be some legal differences in the availability requirements for a PSTN service as compared with an internet service.
I am still discovering them, although I may have most of them accounted for:
- VOIP host failure
- NBN routing tables corrupted (it was entertaining when that happened)
- Power failure â NBN failure
- NBN failure (all other reasons)
- NBN scheduled maintenance
- RSP system collapse, RSPâs servers, support, phones, and apps all offline
- Incompatible DTMF signalling
- Wireless home phone not fully compatible with VOIP modem but âsort ofâ works
- I hear you but you do not hear me, not discovered until a call is placed or received, requiring a local reboot
I have used my fully charged mobile to contact my RSP many times. Even a partially charged one had to be used now and then. The grid (power) was down for most of a day. Areas subject to storms that take out infrastructure know all about that. Lucky we can charge our mobiles from the car if need be, assuming the tower is up.
There are requirements for PSTN and a lack of them for NBN.
I am not aware of any NBN RSP who will provide service unless you agree to give up your rights. Is there one?
I believe Telstra are obliged as per this from their USO page
" Universal Service Obligation (USO)
Telstra has a Universal Service Obligation (USO) to ensure standard telephone services (STS) and payphones are reasonably accessible to all people in Australia on an equitable basis, wherever they work or live.
Payphones
We operate various payphones around the country that provide access to local, national and international calls for a fee, 24 hour access to emergency service numbers (free of charge), and operator and directory assistance.
Standard telephone service
We fulfil our obligation to provide an STS by giving customers access to a reliable telephone service that has good voice reception and ensures connections and faults associated with this service are undertaken and repaired within a reasonable time.
A USO STS includes the following features:
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Access to local, national and international calls
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Untimed local calls
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24 hour free access to emergency service numbers
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Priority Assist (for those with a life threatening medical condition)
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Customer service Guarantee (acceptable connection and repair timeframes)
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A unique telephone number with or without a directory listing
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Preselection (which allows the user to preselect another provider for long distance, fixed to mobile and international calls where the STS is provided over our copper network)
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Calling line identification
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Operator and directory assistance and,
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Itemised billing.
You can request that we provide a standard telephone handset on request for an additional cost. We also provide people with hearing, speech, vision, dexterity or mobility impairments with an alternative form of communication including equipment necessary to use this service. For more information see our disability products and services.
Our national pricing ensures that customers in remote areas pay the same price for an STS as our customers in cities. While this service has traditionally been provided as a fixed line telephone service, our obligation is technology neutral meaning we can choose the technology over which we provide you with this service. For example in some remote areas we provide customers with an STS over satellite."
and the NBN Co take on this obligation
âTelstra is obliged to provide a voice service upon reasonable request nationally as part of its universal service obligation (USO). Telstra will generally provide a voice service where required using NBN Coâs infrastructure and wholesale services. Where Telstra does not use NBN Coâs infrastructure, it may need to provide its own infrastructure to supply voice servicesâ
Further is this article which describes some effort on Telstraâs part to ditch itâs USO obligations in particular with regards to Fixed Wireless and place them on NBN Co
Itâs a 20 year contract but not sure when it is due to run out (2032 from the link provided by @PhilT further down in his post on the Lawyers take) , but with Telstra you do have access to the Customer Service Guarantee (CSG) for faults that are not fixed within a timeframe as laid out in the CSG terms, it also is obliged to provide a Priority Assistance to those who qualify based on health (life threatening illness).
PA page on Telstraâs site
CSG page
So currently if you want that âprotectionâ the only service you can go with is Telstra, no other providers are obliged to nor do they offer such protections. As @PhilT points out above all the rest have you sign those rights away to use their services.
If your Standard Telephone Service is not provided on time then the following can apply
âWhere delay is envisaged in supplying you with a Standard Telephone Service, we may offer you an interim telephone service, or in some circumstances, a choice between an interim telephone service and an alternative telephone service. An example of an interim telephone service is the temporary provision of a mobile telephone service (at standard telephone rates), while waiting for your permanent telephone service to be connected. An example of an alternative telephone service is a call diversion to a mobile or fixed telephone serviceâ
If a repair is envisaged to take longer than it should
"
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Where delay is envisaged in repairing your Standard Telephone Service, we may offer you an interim telephone service, or in some circumstances, a choice between an interim telephone service and an alternative service, while waiting for your permanent telephone service to be repaired.
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You may be entitled to a CSG payment for every working day of delay beyond an agreed repair date. See âHow much do we pay?â for more details."
How much they pay:
"For connection, repair and appointment liability incurred on or after 31 October 2006, weâre liable to make a CSG payment to you in accordance with the CSG Standard in the following circumstances:
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If we fail to connect or repair your service within the specified time period or on an agreed date, you may be entitled to receive a CSG payment of $14.52 (for residential/charity customers) or $24.20 (for business customers), for each working day that we miss, for the first five working days of delay. After the initial five working days of delay, you may be entitled to receive a CSG payment of $48.40 per additional working day of delay.
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If only one Enhanced Call Handling Feature is not connected or repaired within the specified time period or on an agreed date, you may be entitled to receive a CSG payment of $7.26 (for residential/charity customers) or $12.10 (for business customers) for each working day of delay. After the initial five working days of delay, you may be entitled to receive a CSG payment of $24.20 (for all customer types) for each additional working day of delay.
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If two or more Enhanced Call Handing Features are not connected or repaired within the specified time period or on an agreed date, you may receive a CSG payment of $14.52 (for residential/charity customers) or $24.20 (for business customers), for each working day of delay. After the initial five working days of delay, you may be entitled to receive a CSG payment of $48.40 (for all customer types) for each additional working day of delay.
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If an appointment is missed on a day that is not a day in relation to which you are entitled to receive a CSG payment in accordance with any of the above circumstances, you may be entitled to receive a CSG payment of $14.52 (for residential/charity customers) or $24.20 (for business customers) for each missed appointment.
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Eligible CSG entitlements are automatically notified and credited to your account.
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The maximum CSG amount payable under the CSG Standard is $25,000.
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The Goods and Services Tax (GST) introduced on 1 July 2000 does not apply to CSG payments."
There are a lot of âOutsâ that Telstra can make use of to avoid paying the Customer money
"The CSG Standard does not apply in certain circumstances, including the following:
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When you accept a reasonable offer and supply of an interim telephone service or, where you have been offered a choice between an interim telephone service or an alternative service and you have accepted an alternative service, while waiting for your permanent telephone service to be connected or repaired.
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When you do not accept the reasonable offer of an interim telephone service only, or do not accept the offer of an alternative service where it is offered in combination with an interim telephone service, while waiting for your permanent telephone service to be connected or repaired.
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Where delays are due to circumstances outside Telstraâs control such as damages to Telstra facilities by a third party; natural disasters or extreme weather conditions (e.g. bushfire, flood, cyclones) or where delays are caused by Telstra needing to move staff or equipment to an area affected by circumstances beyond the control of Telstra; compliance with any law of the Commonwealth, State, Territory or Local Government.
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Where a missed appointment occurs over a period of connection or repair delay for which a CSG liability already applies.
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Where you are connected by another carriage service provider to a Standard Telephone Service and request Telstra to supply that service, the CSG Standard does not apply in respect of the connection timeframe.
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Where you have agreed to waive your right to CSG eligibility under the CSG Standard.
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Where your telephone service is an InContactÂź service.
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Where Enhanced Call Handling Features are not available due to existing network limitations.
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Where you are able to activate the Enhanced Call Handling Features from your telephone handset or customer equipment.
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Where you request connection of your telephone service and we have reasonable grounds for believing that you would be unable or unwilling to pay the charges for connection or use of the service, or if you were disconnected for non-payment of a charge and we have not reached agreement for the payment of that charge.
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Where it is necessary to withdraw the service(s) in order to maintain or upgrade a facility and Telstra has given reasonable notice.
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If you unreasonably withhold agreement to an appointment offered by Telstra.
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If you fail to keep an appointment with Telstra without giving at least 24 hours notice.
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If you unreasonably refuse Telstra access to your premises."
This synopsis puts a slightly different spin on it.
Near the bottom the âSafeguards Reviewâ might be a misnomer and suggests government thinking.
if one goes here
Yeah the USG was supposed to take over from the USO, the USO contract has not yet run out so Telstra are still obliged at this time. The USG is a lot worse than the USO in terms of Consumer protection, well in fact it really provides none other than NBN Co will provide a network to Australia but there is no right to seek redress for faults, ISPs however do have a right of monetary redress but only for their business not their customers.
A lawyers takeâŠ
Are you using a separate VoIP device (ATA)? Or phone service provided by connecting handset directly to NBN device?
What NBN technology are you using?
Not asking for technical advice but had all of the previously posted issues over the last 16 months, some resolved by changing modems (technically the router since it is HFC).
Currently have VTech DECT handsets connected to a TP-Link Archer VR600v and that works better than using the VTech base that introduced an additional delay in ringing. When using the base the number of rings a caller heard versus how many rings the phone sounded caused some callers to prematurely hang up.
Functionally it works fine but the VTech display shows nothing but âPLS SET TIMEâ and you can scroll through the caller-ID list. The rest of the features do not work, and that is reasonable. âPLS SET TIMEâ is not the worst problem in life.
(I recognise that you are not asking for technical advice but perhaps general discussion will be useful for others.)
As far as I can tell, this is an xDSL router but since you say that you have HFC, I assume that you have a separate cable modem (that is either an actual modem or a router in bridged mode).
I ran VoIP over HFC for many years without any particular problems. However any genuine VoIP service clearly has more failure modes than a phone service that is not dependent on the internet. I always prefer separate boxes so that chop-and-change, fault isolate, upgrade is more readily possible - whereas you seem to have an all-singing-all-dancing router, which is âgreatâ until the music stops.
My VoIP box offers an absolute mass of settings, almost all of which are incomprehensible to me, but probably one of them controls the transmission of the call date/time from the VoIP box to the handset. (In order for this to work however the VoIP box itself must know what the time is and mine, annoyingly, doesnât do daylight savings, so every 6 months I have to update the timezone offset in the VoIP box. Once that is done, the next time there is an inbound call, the handset will pick up the correct time.)
I donât know how relevant any of this to the original comment about an NBN box that also provides the phone service. The difference is that in that situation there is the potential for the phone service to be compatible and configured correctly out-of-the-box - so it looks more like a traditional phone service where all the customer has to do is plug in a handset. Another difference is that the phone service in that situation does not have to be VoIP. (I think you are seeing something rather different because you have HFC, not FTTP.)
The one definite difference is power outage behaviour - where the government has transferred responsibility from the NBN to you. Thanks, government. If you want to have a phone service while the power is out, you now have to provide your own UPS (whereas with a PSTN that problem didnât arise at all - except when the exchange itself loses power). I think the government deems that Australians nowadays have so many mobile phones, it is more efficient to say that the battery in the mobile phone is effectively the UPS.
But then I donât know that any of this is relevant to the next generation 000 service.
Yes, a cable modem.
I did once upon a time but have gravitated to simplicity of boxes âon the tableâ for both clutter and management issues.
A few but not so many as you may have.
The VR600v does, and it does do daylight savings. The deficiency is likely to be in my VTech handsets or a basic compatibility issue. VTech, predictably, âdoes not supportâ their handsets connected to anything but their VTech base station.
Locally that is insufficient unless one also runs a line from oneâs own UPS to the local NBN âpitâ that seems to have less than a minute over ride from any power glitch.
Assuming one has a reliable mobile signal, which many do not, and I do not, even in metro Melbourne 1km from the towers.
It is if one needs to ring 000 and cannot.
This project has gone very well. Surely it has. The CEOâs bleat one can still make 000 calls but what happens then? Apologies surely make it better?
Once 000 is engaged there are other issues from ambo availability to ramping, but those are other topics.
I made an attempt to discover why we are where we are now.
Iâm none the wiser having noted
- Telstra were supposedly offered 20 years as the ECP operator in 2012.
- No surprise to note in 2014 under Minister Turnbull a discussion paper for a review was announced. https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/sites/default/files/Review-of-the-National-Triple-Zero-000-Operator-Discussion-Paper.pdf
- This delivered in the fullness of time an action plan with recommendations 2016. https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/sites/default/files/triple-zero-review-implementation-plan_2.pdf
- There was some âto-ing and fro-ingâ including recommendations from Infrastructure Australia that the proposed tendering of the service should be put off until 2018.
- A tender was issued requesting expressions of interest in 2017.
IT News had foreseen in 2016 where this might all end up.
Skip ahead to the beginning of this topic to see what happened next?
No one should find surprise to know that Telstra is still in the picture. And the chalice is still being passed around looking for someone willing to hold onto it long enough to deliver a product consumers can have some trust in.
Iâll note from the July 2014 discussion paper issued by the government of the day. My highlight.
The 2014 Discussion Paper also referred to âNext Generation Triple Zeroâ. Nothing new here.