Good guys money back

early January I bought a printer online from “The good guys” . 3 days after oredering and paying I got a phone call, they can’t supply the printer I ordered. Asking do you want to order an other printer or money back. I decided money back. She gave me an e mail addresss where I shall send my bank details to. ( I still wondering why they need that, since they had my credit card details!?) From the supplied email address I got twice the reply:
" Delivery incomplete
There was a temporary problem delivering your message to Geelong@goodguys.com.au. Gmail will retry for 21 more hours. You’ll be notified if the delivery fails permanently."
Since, I wrote a letter to the Good guys in Geelong on the 18 of February. Didn’t get the money back. Then I wrote to ACCC. Still no money back. Now I wondering, shall I go to court? How do I do that? We talking about $1000 !! ?

Seems that you paid by credit card, so contact the card provider and ask for a charge reversal. Since the issue is non supply of paid for goods, the reversal should be straightforward.
Also, any refund should be done by the same means as the original payment, so you are right to query giving bank account details for presumably a money transfer.

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This is the wrong email address and why you haven’t heard from them. From the Good Guys website, their contact details are…

Geelong
Unit 1, 40-50 Fyans Street,Geelong, VIC 3220
Ph: 03 5249 4000
E-mail: geelong@thegoodguys.com.au

The email address has a ‘the’ in it.

I am also reluctant to send bank details by email. Maybe call them and give them over the phone. Alternatively, go to the Geelong store if it is nearby.

If you paid online, they won’t have your credit card details. Online payments are processed through a payment platform embedded into a secure webpage. The Good Guys doesn’t receive or keep credit card details.

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Of course they receive credit card details. How could they possibly process a payment using that method without those details?

No they don’t. On-line payment platform provide code for inclusion on a business website for processing of credit card payments. The payment gateways or platforms (looking at the Good Guys website they use Windcave payment gateway embedded into their cart pages) don’t share credit card details with the business and payment goes directly though the payment gateway/platform and not the retailer. The retailer receives payment after the transaction is approved through the payment gateway/platform - usually next business day.

This website explains how payment gateways work…

If one rang up and ordered a product over the phone, and gave their credit card details, then there is potential that the business kept a record of the credit card details if the payment was not automatically entered into their payment system (e.g. manually entering details into a EFTPOS handset for example).

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You have more experience than many of us with some things as you have a business, but I have had numerous occasions where I have ordered online and paid through various platforms only to be sometimes advised the merchant could not deliver. I have never encountered an issue receiving the refund to the card, although sometimes it takes those ‘3-5 business days’.

It beggars common sense a payment platform cannot issue a card credit from a merchant. The linkage between the merchant and card at worst would be the transaction ID.

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You presume thegoodguys actually uses a third party payment gateway. Do you know that they indeed do?
I would think most larger companies would have a direct relationship with credit card providers as merchants.

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Some businesses can reverse the transaction processed by the payment gateway. It can be relatively straightforward forward for low volume businesses and/or the customer has kept the receipt and the receipt is linked to the processed payment. If may also mean trawling through transactions on the payment gateway to find the matching transaction. If there are multiple transactions of similar amounts at the same time, there is risk of reversing the wrong transaction.

As I have indicated elsewhere in the community when processing cancellations, it can take some time to check and process a refund direct back to a card (possibly up to 10- 15 minutes) Some businesses may ask for banking details to save the effort made and also to ensure that the wrong payment isn’t reversed by human error. We have tried to avoid reversing payment resulting from cancellations by not taking pre-payments.

If one takes their credit card in store, they should be able to refund direct to the credit card through their PoS EFTPOS readers.

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They do and most online business do. It is a service provided by some banks or through second parties.

As indicated above, the Good Guys use Windcave. The code is embedded into their payment page.

Credit card payment platforms work like paying with PayPal. When one pays with PayPal at checkout, the retailer doesn’t keep login details or access information to one’s PayPal account. The customer’s payment goes from the customer direct to PayPal, and back to the retailer’s business bank.

The same principles apply with BPay etc. It is common across businesses of all sizes.

I understand speaking to our own payment platform that such is done to ensure payment security. The payment platforms provide the embedded payment security… rather than relying the business website to be be continually updated with upgrades/patches to maintain currency of their security.

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You do realise, maybe you don’t, that Ajax is a client-side Web development environment, and not a third party payments service?

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Apologies, it is Windcave. Have corrected the above posts.

I have just noticed they confirm all the above on their website…

https://www.thegoodguys.com.au/safe-and-secure

Looks like their merchant bank is the ANZ.

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Fine. TGG uses Windcave.
The standard transaction is a ‘purchase’ type, the details to be supplied by the customer, in this case TGG, who need to get that from their customer, the purchaser.
Another standard transaction type is a ‘refund’ which would reverse the purchase.
So Windcave fully supports refunds.
So too would TGG in the same method of payment as the original purchase method.
If not they would be in breach of Australian consumer laws.

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No, that is not the case. The ACCC website states:

Refunds should be the same amount you have already paid, provided in the same form as your original payment.

The key wording is should, not must.

I have outlined above why some businesses may decide not to refund back through the payment gateway. Option to refund to credit card used in the online transaction should be available in store.

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The legal meaning of should vs shall vs must is a slippery thing indeed.

My original suggestion was to simply ask for, and in the case in point, certainly get a reversal of the payment by credit card.

What the companies refund method is is out of their hands unless they can sucessfully dispute the reversal. Highly unlikely given they have admitted the product bought and paid for cannot be supplied.

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“should” does that mean they can charge me any amount without supplying any goods, and keep the money?? I was wondering alsready,if they can’t deliver, why is the product still on the website and they cahrge me before they noticed the printer isn’t available??

From your first contact with The Good Guys, they advised you they would provide a full refund when they receive your banking details. As there was an error with the email address, it potentially isn’t their fault they haven’t refunded to date. They are possibly still waiting for your banking details.

With emails, any slight mistake in the address the email won’t go through. As there was an error in the email address you used, it hasn’t gone through and as a result they haven’t been able to refund you.

I suggest you phone The Good Guys, offer to attend the Geelong store (or your nearest store) with your credit card for a full refund. Refund should include any delivery charges, if these apply.

Alternatively, they might be able process the refund over the phone at the Geelong store, if they have been advised a refund is in order. The Geelong store contact details are in an earlier post.

Avoid a credit card reversal at this stage as it is unlikely to be successful. When the credit card issuer contacts the Good Guys in the dispute process, they will indicate that they have approved the refund (which your first post indicates they have), and waiting for the customer to provide them with the detail to allow the refund to proceed (or in their system for payment as indicated below). A issuer won’t do a reversal as it might result in ‘double dipping’ or refund paid twice.

In relation to supplying the purchased items, as you contacted them and a refund was agreed, the sale has been cancelled. It is possible, that since you made the purchase online, stock may now be available. As the sale has been cancelled by you due to what it believed is unreasonable timeframes to delivery (collection), you won’t know if your order could have been fulfilled.

It is becoming more common for multi-store and online businesses to take purchase orders even if the stock inventory doesn’t exist in the store fulfilling the order. For supermarkets they might substitute an equivalent product (say different brand or package size), but with electronic goods this isn’t possible. Some larger multi-store retailers will shift stock between stores to meet shortfall in a particular store. Some modern online retailers don’t hold stock but are more a platform for sellers and buyers connect. This is the times we live.

Contact The Good Guys by phone, and rearrange the refund. It is likely the purchase order will show refund is pending.

It is also with noting that accounting cycles in business can be 30+ days. Which is the time to process and issue a refund. There is a chance, your refund is in their accounting system (from you letter) and about to be paid by the next processing cycle. Contact them by phone and they should be able to advise if this is the case or it is still outstanding.

Let us know how you get on. If they chose not to refund, then credit card reversal becomes an option.

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They told me on the phone the printer isn’t available anymore and asked me if I want money back or an other printer. I sayd money back! On the 20 January I send them a letter by post, with my bank details and asked them to send the money back! Today is the 11 Feb. but now money back in my account!!

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Two things surprise me in this discussion.

Firstly that TGG did not refund to the credit card, details of which they could take over the phone if not available. Despite all the alternate explanations offered, it’s what I’d expect from prior similar experiences.

Secondly experience with TGG , JB HiFi, SuperCheap, Meyer to name some and other large retailers is that items can show as in stock on line, but the physical items fail to be on the shelf in store. In which instance the business should be well acquainted with needing to refund or take a rain check.

Offering a refund for a credit card purchase by asking for bank account details for the refund?
I’d explode, before pointing out that there is no way I’d entrust my account details to an insecure email.

It seems there has been a lot of effort put into rationalising the position of The Good Guys. It hasn’t changed the fundamental obligation on the seller to credit directly against the original CC payment.

Per TGG web site, para 12 is quite clear.

There are also links in their web site on how to escalate a dispute, by using the online forms.

P.S. note @siegrist most recent post, advicing a refund after mailing details to TGG. Some time before this topic was raised? The OP first mentioned a letter was sent the 18th Feb but in the most recent post 20th Jan.

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That is not how the process works. The issuer will, if the reversal request meets the criteria stipulated by the credit card company, do a reversal of a charge through the credit card company, Visa, MC, etc.

The issuer will not be chasing up the company, they are looking after their customer.

The merchant’s end will notify the company that a reversal has occurred and the money that was once credited to their account is no longer in their account.

The company now has the opportunity to dispute the reversal, which in this case would never succeed, as they have failed to deliver goods, and admitted they cannot.

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I sent the ny bank details by “snail post” (letter) as well, last month! No response!
Since I d’like to go to court! But it seems whitout a solicitor, nothing goes!? But good guys speculate: Solicitor does cost more then $1000?

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