I think we all forget one vital fact in all the GMO v Organic debates. It is NOT possible to feed everyone in the world organically…there must, therefore be various methods in use. It is the prerogative of governments to determine the best way to feed their citizens. We, the non citizens, can certainly add our thoughts and opinions in many ways but we should never seek to thwart the prime directive of any government which is to feed its people!
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@pmg, we can’t currently feed the world with genetically-modified food, either. This highlights a problem with distribution, not necessarily growing methods.
The current rules for organic agriculture don’t leave room for progress, unfortunately. What we need is sustainable food: food that takes everything into account from cradle to grave and back to cradle again. All things must be considered, not simply a checklist of “do you think your pesticides will break down at some point? Okay cool.” A huge generalisation and simplification, I know, but it highlights the main concern of how simply creating a few simple rules strips people of their want to do better and allows them to simply do enough.
read this… http://www.activistpost.com/2016/09/judge-rules-government-can-ban-vegetable-gardens-theyre-ugly.html We can all grow our own organivc foods or have the schools provide that as a service to its pupels/children …as has been done in indigenious and other public/sate schools in many Australian locations for feed the children good healthly, Toxin free foods…YES it can be done
sorry if i was abrupt but I work in this industry and with many health and science doctors/professors too. We work also in advisory and the crap that I’ve heard the big corporate say and do…is wrong…we can feed the world but it takes time…eg vertical gardens…in containers and the list goes on
I understand your position but, having grown up on a small family farm in the west of Ireland, I do not see how resolution of distribution problems might have helped. We were purely, apart from spraying the potato crop - a vital task in those days, organic. We fished, grew cereal crops for fodder and flour, grew vegetables, had a cow for milk and a pig for slaughter, cut peat for fuel, had fruit trees, chickens etc. However, we were only ever one bad growing or ripening season away from disaster! Money was something we hoarded for the land rent and purchase of clothes! Today I grow my salad hydroponically, today there are more options and I firmly believe that we will always need options. Perhaps those options need not include GMO but if we could have grown one crop which was impervious to the inclemency of Mother Nature we would have been the happiest farmers in the West!
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Ron maybe do some research on the quality of science food babe puts in her work.
Also typing IN UPPER CASE does nothing to prove a case.
Here’s one for you FACT - Food Babe once made a claim re flying in a plane that said there was an issue with the airlines mixing air with 50% nitrogen.
Most of us should recall, from year 8 science class that air has 78% nitrogen.
Here’s an actual fact for you, Food Babe makes up most of her “facts” or misrepresents them. Many of her claims are along the lines of:- “substance A” is in paint thinner, it’s also in some foods, therefore those foods are poison.
This sort of statement would be true if substance A is water, by the way, so do we ban water?
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checkout www,vortexics.com.au and look at the crops that we can protect from crops as a IPM measure…while the GMO debate is heating up and GMO and pesticide companie… certainly are lobbying the US qand other global Politician to the point in the USA where: http://www.activistpost.com/2016/09/judge-rules-government-can-ban-vegetable-gardens-theyre-ugly.html WOW Last week, a Miami-Dade judge became the focus of much-deserved anger when she ruled on an ordinance banning front yard vegetable gardens. WHY??? When some are promoting GMO’s as the only alternatives…GMO crops do have serious ISSUES…for those that are talking about a shortage to feed the world growing population…yes we can have community organic gardens
Isn’t it funny how people who aren’t for the Establishment have “clouded emotions”, but those who are for the establishment have logic and science on their side? Like their emotions are so full of clarity or non-existent? Science does not equal the truth because the scientific method omits all the unasked questions. 100 years ago, a proportion of the science of the day is now considered pure poppycock by most modern scientists.
It’s time we all realized that Corporations own the Earth and the people in it, and they pay millions and millions of dollars to make sure our representatives (politicians) vote their way? Case in point: Monsanto in the US. Monsanto PAYS for the “science” that “proves” their own case, and offers sweetheart deals and money to local pollies. Remember the case of Steve Marsh, the organic canola farmer in WA? He was successfully sued by Monsanto for “stealing” their patented GMO seed, even though the GMO seed actually contaminated his organic crop by wind. He lost his organic certified status and his livelihood. He lost everything trying to fight Monsanto in court. What chance does a little farmer have against a behemoth like Monsanto?
GMO’s own farmers and their future crops. They are not designed to nutritiously feed the world, nor can they.
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People who make all sorts of pointed statements with no evidence to back it up (we will ignore blogs such as Food Babe and Activist Post for obvious reasons); and who are evidently emotional about a subject and let it get in the way of concise, legible communication - these are people who may justly be accused of having their judgement clouded by emotions. Simply fulfilling the criteria of being disestablishmentarian does not constitute having clouded judgement. This is not logical in any way that I can see and I hope you will see this too.
There have been incredibly civilised and respectful discussions on this forum between people who believe there is nothing wrong with genetically-modified foods and people who believe that it is a dangerous practice. I considered both arguments equally in these conversations because the conversation was non-confronting and respectful. I find it hard to consider some arguments that only link to opinion articles - some from people who have been proven to scare-monger for ratings.
(My apologies @BrendanMays)
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As for the rest of your reply, @Astrac:
Can you please provide a link for this case? I would like to look into it.
I would also like your evidence for this statement, thanks.
Also, I’d like to point out that just because I “have logic and science on [my] side”, this doesn’t make me “for the Establishment”. I very much despise how corporations walk all over their citizens by waving a disposable dollar around.
GMO’s own farmers and their future crops. They are not designed to nutritiously feed the world, nor can they. Organic farming provides solutions that replenish the soil, that is not dependent upon chemicals, pesticides and artificial fertilizers - and which may also be used to capture carbon in the soil.Factor in those benefits, and organic looks like an obvious bet. The only people making money on conventional ag are the providers of fossil fuels and fertilizers/chemicals, and the makers of huge farming machinery.
Time to try something else, before we end up destroying what little good soil we have left.
Forest gardening should also be seriously considered for its benefits of very efficient food production in terms of energy in vs energy out and its ecosystem services benefits over “traditional” agriculture - e.g. soil conservation, biodiversity gains, flood prevention etc. - alongside organic farming, vastly reducing meat consumption and rewilding.
Organics should be seen as a way to reduce pesticide intakes and not solely as the main food source for most of the human population.
If you want to reduce habitat destruction here are the 3 (in my opinion) realistic ways to do so.
- Greater use of aquaculture: There are a number of edible seaweeds and algae. Even if Westerners are resistant to eating them, there is ZERO reason they could be grown and fed to animals. 1/3 of all farm produce goes to feeding animals. You could feed cows, goats, sheep, etc quite a lot of seaweed without changing their taste. There are a lot of “empty” areas of the oceans with very little animal life or plant life. Growing commercial seaweed and algae there would be much less environmentally damaging (and wouldn’t consume fresh water until the end when you wash them). This is the next best idea if you can’t convince the majority of the world to go vegan.
- Food recycling: 10-15% of all food in the developed world is thrown away because it spoils. Setting up small insect farms (you can do it warehouses) that harvest spoiled food from grocery stores and restaurants could recycle almost 1/2 of this waste. Instead of trying to convince Westerners to eat insects (something bug enthusiast seem fixated on) turn the insects into “insect meal” and use it for chicken and pig feed (and for fish farms). Among the reasons free range chickens taste better is they consume some insects, “Factory chickens” get almost only grains.
- Help Russian farming to modernize: Yeah everyone hates Putin. But Russian has fallow farm land equivalent in size to France. Before the Russian revolution this land was farmed (when Russian was the world’s number one grain exporter) and is now just fallow. If this land was brought back into service, it would lower the need for cutting down rain forest. Also Russia has like Hungary Denmark and other have expelled the GMO crops from its land looking after the health of its people but on a purely ecological level, getting experienced farmers from Canada and the US (Non GMO farmers) to go to Russia and help restart these farms would help save the planet.
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The High Court has rejected a bid for leave to appeal against a ruling in the genetic modification contamination case of West Australian farmer Steve Marsh.
Mr Marsh lost organic certification over most of his land at Kojonup after genetically modified canola blew over from his neighbour’s farm in 2010.
In the case of Steve Marsh vs Baxter (Monsanto), just google it. There are articles from the ABC, The Guardian, Farm Weekly, GM-free Australia, Safe Food Foundation, The Supreme Court, Ecowatch, Permaculture News & Facebook - all on the first page. Among these versions of the truth, you will surely be able to familiarize yourself with some facts.
Next question, re my statement “…(GMO’s - I meant GMO seeds and the corporations that legally own them)…They are not designed to nutritiously feed the world, nor can they.” We’ll have to define the meaning of nutrition, and it is my opinion that GMO’s are not only deficient in nutrients, they are genetically loaded with pesticides. The other major drawback of GMO’s is that they require lots of farm chemicals to grow, and this conventional farming literally kills the soil and the microorganisms that support soil structure. Also, the glyphosate in RoundUp kills bees (the polinaters of most food). GMO is not nutritious food (compared to organically grown food), as ron stated earlier:
“The chart below shows that GMO corn has a calcium content of 14 ppm, while Organic corn has literally thousands of ppm more, clocking in at 6,130 ppm. GMO corn has 7 ppm potassium, while organic corn has 113. These are just two examples of how different the nutrient content is in GMO corn, vs Organic.
Worse, GMO corn has a formaldehyde content of 200. Organic corn has none. GMO corn has a Glyphosate content of 13. Organic corn has none.”
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http://www.femail.com.au/professor-dr-marc-cohen-chemicals-are-killing-us.htm this is a well versed professor not my words…
https://www.organicgardener.com.au/blogs/ten-toxic-truthsits better to have the experts reply to this blog i can get him to reply but he is overseas. Did anybody really look at the links and…
Science says you are right, unfortunately most people do not have the expertise to judge all the opinion and pseudo-science pumped out by the passionate but ill-informed. I have spent most of my career working in agriculture and last 12 years in Asia seeing the impact of poor farmers denied good tools to help them improve their lot. GMO are not a magic bullet, but they are one of the best options for improving productivity of agriculture in poor countries ( Europe can afford its political stance)- with less environmental impact than alternatives.
PS Indian farmers commit suicide mostly because thay are in debt to money lenders and that’s mostly due to failed crops or bad choices - the least likely cause is use of GMO’s which generally earn more. Millions of cotton farmers in India happily choose GMO, which costs more , because it gives better returns.
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Not one GM crop on the market increases yield. Heinemann did a comparison between the yields of the EU and US over 50 years to see what difference the introduction of GM crops have had. The result? GM reduces yield and increases pesticide use. http://www.gmoevidence.com/professor-heinemann-gm-crop-production-is-lowering-us-yields-and-increasing-pesticide-use/
The science shows that the way to feed the world is agroecology. It can double food production in the areas that need it in 10 years while reducing rural poverty and cooling the climate. http://www.srfood.org/en/report-agroecology-and-the-right-to-food
Why don’t we hear about this? Because it can’t be patented and controlled to make profit for corporations. They spent billions every year trying to prevent us hearing about solutions and demanding they are implemented. Instead we get the TINA (there is no alternative) to the neoliberal stranglehold that has the world in its grip. https://www.organicconsumers.org/old_articles/bmhist.html
Luckily the truth cannot be withheld eternally. We can cool the climate and regenerate our lives. http://regenerationinternational.org/
We just need to be able to see the corporate spin that appears everywhere, including in the comments on sites like this.
i am advising our VF and other Indian farmer to go organic, as its supported by the likes of the famous Dr Vandana Shiva http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/08/25/seeds-of-doubt
http://complete-health-and-happiness.com/aldi-bans-neonicotinoids-goes-organic-rivals-whole-foods-as-healthiest-grocery-store/ yeah and checkout Costco measures for its farmers: http://www.ecowatch.com/costco-lends-money-to-farmer-to-buy-more-land-to-meet-growing-demand-f-1891114277.html
Fantastic news Ron! It is the way to go and I wish you and the farmers all the best.
