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Getting a flu shot will make me sick?


#41

Antibiotics are useless against viruses such as the flu viruses.

Antibiotics are very useful against bacterial infections.


#42

I can name several substances that may be found in Vaccines that in large doses can cause illness or death, among them are Formaldehyde,and Hydrochloric Acid (HCl). These are certainly bad if ingested in sufficient quantities. But they are also found naturally in the human body as part of body processes eg breakdown of food in the stomach by acid (Gastric Acid contains HCl). Formaldehyde is created and used within certain metabolic processes.

Others things found in vaccines include Aluminium salts as adjuvants, that is they are used in strengthening and lengthening the immune response to the vaccine. Aluminium salts appear to slow down the release of the active ingredient from the vaccine once it is injected, and stimulate the immune system to respond to the vaccine. They also absorb protein well, and stop the proteins in the vaccine sticking to the walls of a container during storage.

Antibiotics used to stop Bacteria growing in the vaccine production process. Some of these are neomycin, streptomycin, polymyxin b., gentamicin and kanamycin. No penicillin or similar commonly allergy reaction causing ones are used. If someone is allergic to any of the ones used however, they should discuss the vaccines with their doctors to ensure no ill effects. The amounts present in prepared vaccines are very small or undetectable.

Egg Albumin as it is used as a growing medium for some vaccines.

Sodium Hydroxide is also used in the production of vaccines in it’s role as a acidity modifier to create the correct pH balance, in doing so it is consumed leaving water & Sodium Chloride as a byproduct ie salt. None is left as Sodium Hydroxide. The same result happens for Hydrochloric Acid.

Thiomersal (an ethylmercury based preservative) though it is not like methylmercury compounds that accumulate in the body… It is in very small amounts in a vaccine. Thiomersal is not used in Australia but is included here in this list as people may receive vaccinations elsewhere in the World.

Vaccines can also contain gelatine, Human Serum Albumin (a stabiliser), Recombinant human serum albumin (a stabiliser) Sorbitol (which the body produces anyway), Manniitol (similar to Sorbitol), Sucrose, Lactose, Glycerol and a large number of other compounds.

But of all these products the amounts found in vaccines are so small as to be harmless or have no effect to our bodies. We either break them down through natural processes, they are used by the body as part of it’s metabolic pathways as they already occur in our bodies, or we excrete them via our normal elimination processes. None are in quantities that could be or are Toxic but some people could be very allergic to some eg eggs.

To read more on what can be included or used in vaccine production worldwide I include some easy to read sources:

http://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vaccine-ingredients

https://www.vaccines.gov/basics/vaccine_ingredients/

https://www.fda.gov/biologicsbloodvaccines/safetyavailability/vaccinesafety/ucm187810.htm

For a list of all the various components used in Vaccine production in Australia is the following:

http://www.immunise.health.gov.au/internet/immunise/publishing.nsf/Content/Handbook10-home~handbook10-tools~handbook10-appendices~handbook10-appendix3

I tried to get some sort of understanding about Toxic Load but what I found was that they consider everything modern has some burden it puts on the functioning of the human body, ie the chemicals in everything burden the body and need to be eliminated for the body to function correctly.

I think they believe that somehow they lived healthier and longer lives before modern times and they need to return to those simpler things to be healthier and live longer. Unfortunately this is not really true, before modern medicine populations had vastly higher child mortality rates caused by diseases we now vaccinate against, most adults and children had very poor life spans dying because of infections that could not be controlled, from the results of poor diets, poor hygiene, lack of primary healthcare, damage from previous illnesses eg Childhood Scarlet Fever infections, Typhoid, Cholera, Malaria, Dysentery, Cancer of myriad types, Sexually Transmitted diseases, measles, mumps, congenital/genetic disorders eg Haemophilia and the list goes on.

While I agree that eating good quality food in appropriate portions, having good social activity, exercise, mental relaxation, a belief system (whatever that may be including science), and drinking good clean water are important for our good health, it is also important to understand these do not in themselves, without good medical and dental health interventions & preventative measures, lead to long and healthy lives for ourselves and our children.


#43

Oxidane being another substance responsible for huge numbers of deaths, yet I wash in it daily …

Context is everything … or nothing … :slight_smile:


#44

Agree.

Unfortunately the lesser informed look at things like Formaldehyde,and Hydrochloric Acid (HCl) and think these things sound scary.

For those who are interested and as @grahroll outlined, the human body produces significant amounts of hydrochloric acid naturally. Hydrochloric acid is produced in the stomach and role is principally to assist with the digestion of foods (commonly referred to as gastric acid) and also as a disinfectant. A disinfectant being to kill those pathogens which can’t survive in a acid environment. At high concentrations, it can cause burning of sensitive body parts. Also if vapour is inhaled or it is swallowed, it can cause damage to the lungs, oesophagus/trachea, pharynx, throat and oral cavity.

What is also interesting, I am yet to find a reliable source that indicates that hydrochloric acid is specifically added to vaccinations. Unfortunately these sort of claims are common with those which don’t believe in the merit or efficacy of vaccination programs.

An explanation of formaldehyde was provided in this post.


#45

You are correct, it is added in the process of creating the vaccine to balance the pH profile of the culture to ensure the proper growth of the active product used to make the vaccine and in the manufacture of the end product to produce the stable pH environment to maintain the efficacy of the vaccine. It is consumed by reaction in these processes and is not found in or added to the final vaccine product eg Vial, pre-filled needle, or oral suspension.


#46

#47

What you get when people fiddle with stats. The experts confirmed that Flu Vaccines are around 59% effective and one said that Professor Del Mar “may have misinterpreted this figure”. You can however assume unfortunately that anti-vaxxes will jump on this report by Prof Del Mar to prop up their arguments and that they will forget to add the Fact Check response that it was “Misleading”


#48

It’s at a pretty high concentration in the stomach, as acid as pH 1. It can certainly damage the oesophagus etc due to vomiting, and can cause severe tooth enamel erosion with repeated exposure.
However, in it’s role to neutralise an alkaline solution, ie balance the pH, it can be vital. I’d never drink a glass of caustic soda solution, ie Sodium hydroxide- the consequences would be severe! However, adding the correct amount of Hydrochloric acid would make it much safer!
NaOH + HCl = H2O + NaCl ie salty water! Not delicious and no good to drink a lot of it, but not going to cause harm in a small quantity.


#49

That’s an important point… and don’t just believe what your’e told by the industry.


#50

I care very little for the industry. I listen to my doctor, the medical profession at large, the multitude of statistics and my household immunologist. I realise the last is not available to everybody but the rest is.


#51

LOL… because Govt and Industry never fiddle with the stats :rofl:


#52

Yes they all do it, but I rely on the vast bulk of peer reviewed reports which show the efficacy. Prof Del Mar used parts of a report in what was termed a “misleading” or “misunderstood” way. Whether you like or dislike vaccinations the overwhelming evidence is that they work, and save lives and lifestyles. Those who choose not to use them put themselves, and they also place at risk their friends, relatives, children, neighbours, the people they pass or incidentally interact with in everyday life, at increased risk of illness, lifelong problems and death.

If the only reason a person refuses a a vaccine is because they don’t like them for any reason (this does not include those who have an inability to be vaccinated) and that could include some of the wacky stuff like they think they are used to brainwash people, they are a danger to the communities of the World, simply put they are a danger to humanity. But being largely humane as a World we allow them to remain in our communities and we suffer the risk of them causing ill effects. I do wish that we had the technology to determine the person who by their refusal to vaccinate caused harm to another. Then we would be able to prosecute them, that they then could be jailed for the harm or deah/s they caused.


#53

Having been on both sides of the equation, my personal experience is that on the government side (non-political part of government, sample of a few) the debates are about truth, accuracy, and adhering to scientific process whether technical/scientific or financial in nature. Add the pollies and their appointees and those bets are often called off in the name of ‘yes sir master sir, minister sir’.

On the industry side the focus is on justifying product and profit by use of the data available.

There is a difference, but only when the partisan pollies are kept out of it.


#54

Wow… I’m sorry but that scary stuff you’re saying. Prosecution? Vaccinating is still a choice and I believe it should remain that way. In fact the Australian Immunisation Handbook states that immunisation “…must be given voluntarily in the absence of undue pressure, coercion or manipulation”.
The jury is not yet out on this subject and yes, a vast bulk of those “peer reviewed reports” are produced to achieve a desired result.
The important thing here is the debate… when I was a kid I had asthma. The doctor who saw me sat at his desk smoking a cigarette… many doctors did back then and some even told you that smoking was good for your lungs.


#55

Are there other types of pollies? :wink:


#56

There are, but few and hard to find. Mostly exiled in these times.

While ‘intelligence’ is not exactly what is meant by this program, what can be said?

https://www.ona.gov.au/about-ona/overview/oni


#57

The whole point of peer review is to prevent error and fraud. The system isn’t perfect but it is better than anything else. How would you ensure that we had the best possible understanding of the world?

You are hinting at a vast conspiracy, that is many reviewers have deliberately passed over erroneous or fraudulent findings, do you have evidence of such? Do you think the smallpox, polio and many other diseases just decided to quit altogether or to reduce in effect for no reason, or are the reports of those occurrences false and part of the conspiracy too?


#58

And there we have it… if one questions the status quo, suddenly there’s a conspiracy.
Should we just question nothing and accept what we’re given? Also, I was not aware that this post was about ‘small pox, polio and many other diseases’ so I believe that is something for another topic perhaps.


#59

I am pleased to hear there is no conspiracy.

So where is your evidence that ‘vast bulk of those “peer reviewed reports” are produced to achieve a desired result.’?


#60

It could be said that there is possibly middle ground between questioning nothing and questioning everything. Being a cynic I believe is of value, keeping a ‘watching brief’ over a situation and an open mind to developments is also good, but I feel there is sometimes a tendency for each extraordinary or exceptional event or case to trigger a full review, when it is clear that exceptions don’t by definition negate the norm. We read crap in the news every day about things that worry and concern us, yet it’s easy to forget that the news we see is so often about stuff that almost never happens - that’s why it’s news (a favourite quote of Bruce Schneier - I really recommend reading his books especially “Beyond Fear” which has application across a broad range of topics including this one).

I think its perfectly reasonable to bring the other diseases into the topic - they are the generic where flu is the specific, but in terms of discussing efficacy it’s a bigger story.

The topic title itself is somewhat open to interpretation - does it mean it won’t reduce your chances of getting the flu? does it mean it will give you the flu? does it mean it will make you ill with some other malaise directly? does it mean it will leave you more susceptible to some other malaise indirectly? Maybe it means some deity might smite thee because shots are against some religion? Good to kick all these around I reckon - that’s the wonderful thing about the forum …