CHOICE membership

Getting a flu shot will make me sick?


#17

Healthy people dying is one of the outcomes of getting the flu…so I suppose it could be argued this is one way of getting over it.

The influenza virus does not discriminate when infecting someone…it doesn’t discriminate against race, socioeconomic status, health, age etc. Some factors, such as one with a lung diease, can however have higher risks of complications from the virus. Very healthy individuals can also have similar complications, however the risks are lower (but are not zero).

Generally healthy individuals may cope/recover better from the influenza virus, however, a person’s response to the virus can vary enormously due to a lot of factors outside their control, such as genetic disposition, health condition at the time of infection (say one already has a cold or other common unpreventable diease) and post infection contacts which can cause secondary diseases like pneumonia.

While the flu vaccination is not the magic bullet, it does reduce the risk of infection from the most virallent forms of the flu known at the start of the flu season.

If one thinks that getting healthy, eating healthy, raising your immunity… is the hest and only way to prepare for the winter flu season, this approach goes against well established medical and scientific evidence. The later evidence includes ‘The administration of influenza vaccine is the single most important measure in preventing or attenuating influenza infection and preventing mortality.’

Believing being healthy is all one needs, is something that antivaccination supporters think prevent one getting many preventable diseases. Unfortunately past generations (before vaccinations were ‘invented’) possibly ate healthier (food was organic, fresh etc) and were possibly in many ways healthier than current generations, but this did not stop them being crippled or dying from these common, debilitating and (vaccination) preventable dieases.

Like @draughtrider outlined in another thread, I am concerned that you may have a hidden agenda or be in the ‘health remedy’ industry. It does not appear that you are impartial/have a balanced view to some of the discussion points in this topic.


#18

I say this somewhat jokingly but if people refuse Flu vaccinations perhaps we need to then quarantine them from public life until they are no longer a danger to the public ie until they can no longer infect others or be infected by others. But the message underlying it is serious, if someone has German measles they are warned to keep out of contact with anyone who is pregnant and pregnant women are warned to avoid contact with infected people. If in the case of common measles, if it is detected the person/s are quarantined, and the same goes for many infectious diseases.

Flu is a killer, while for some it is mild, and others moderate in it’s severity, for some it is severe in it’s effects and is deadly in others. Some people in society are irresponsible and even selfish in their interactions with others they are among. They feel ok or they can cope so everybody else doesn’t count, yet if they infect someone they may have caused death, severe harm, or life long damage to any number of that population they wilfully spread disease in. If they walked through a crowd spaying it out of a can we would even possibly call it terrorism. If only they could be identified they could easily be charged with manslaughter or grievous bodily harm but because they are so “invisible” they carry out this infection unpunished.

Some simple acts could mitigate most if not all of this harm by people getting vaccinated and if infected by staying out of public contact until the infection has passed. The same goes for any disease where vaccination is possible, get vaccinated if you are able, be aware of the potential to hurt others and so take precautions to avoid infecting others including staying home if at all possible when infected. But some will continue to be self centred and will refuse to do these things because they are healthy, they only get a few symptoms that don’t worry them, they don’t care what others get, that “I’m all right and that’s all that matters” attitude.


#19

the flu vaccine is full of junk according to my doctor. yes it may be ok if someone is really old and ill as they are full of drugs keeping them alive anyway so one more may help them. their immune system is impaired badly. many flus develop into bacteria infections very quickly in compromised immune systems therefore antibiotics is effective. that is what i meant by that.


#20

The only appropriate rebuttal is some evidence.

While this one has a maybe, it is a maybe, not a would not have


and an example of a ‘conspiracy approach’


#21

I have never heard or heard of a medical practitioner in this country who didn’t advocate in favour of inoculation. Is your doctor a registered medical practitioner?

Is “junk” the word your doctor used, what is this junk? What harm does the junk do? What evidence is there of this?


#22

Many of my friends doctors also. And the hospital. Westmead. Royal North Shore. Individual honest doctors not just mine. The very young and sick, the very sick, the elderly of course they advise to get it.


#23

If one wants the facts on what is in a vaccination, including those like the flu shot, information can be found here…

The Australian Immunisation Handbook

US Center for Disease Control

While some of the compounds which may be used/found in vaccinations may appear ‘scary’, one needs to also understand that these same componds are naturally present in foods or other things we come into contact with/consume.

For example, the anti-vaccination supporters often use formaldehyde as a notable chemical as minute residues may occur in vaccinations after preparation, but one also needs to realise that formaldehyde also occurs naturally in foods.

If one accept the risks of not getting a vaccination, they must also accept the complications and potential long term health consequences (including death) which can result from the disease. If one is comfortable with taking on such risk, then it is up to them. They must also accept the risk of passing any preventable disease onto those vulnerable in our society, due to something outside their control, can’t be vaccinated and therefore protected from the disease.

All I can say is life is short and I personally would want the rest of my life as healthy and unencumbered by injury/disability as possible. This is why I chose to vaccinate. For me and most of the population, the risks of vaccination are far less than the risks associated with getting any of the highly communicable diseases, which can be prevented by the same vaccination.


#24

Could you provide names, as I am sure the AMA would be interested in knowing potential members which go against its own views, as well as that of the scientific and medical science/profession.

It is my understanding that doctors can provide known risks of vaccinations, but should not be recommending one not to be vaccinated…unless of course the vaccination itself poses significant risk to that individual (e.g. allergy to something in the vaccine for example).

If they are recommending healthy individuals not get vaccinated based on non-evidentiary/baseless grounds, this could be used as a basis for complaint to the AMA.


#25

I had my jab at the beginning of the month. It was the over-65 version and I had no ill effects from it. I did get a bit of a cold later that same week but I was in contact with people with sneezy drippy noses. A cold is not the flu. I think some forget that there is a significant distinction between the two.


#26

You will of course supply no evidence to support these additional outrageous allegations - as you have done throughout this thread and others. Trashing the reputations of strangers to try to score points is at best time-wasting, at worst bearing false witness. Please stop and consider your position.


#27

I get the jab every year and this is the first year I’ve picked up the flu. The symptoms are markedly less severe. I haven’t even bothered to take any drugs. Totally worth it.


#28

My wife has the influenza vaccine every year with little or no side effects, but this years vaccine knocked her down for around 24 hours, chills, night sweats, nausea, painful to touch her skin amongst other symptoms. It seems this year they gave her the flu to avoid the flu.

I haven’t bothered with the annual influenza vaccination as I am very fortunate that I am rarely sick, I have not had the common cold for probably 15 years and may have had the flu once or twice when I was younger, but as I age I recognise that it would be foolish to believe that it won’t have benefits as ageing causes degrading of my natural immunity.


#29

#30

This article is a distillation of all the anti-vaccination misinformation conveniently in one place. A complex mix of truth, half-truth, exaggeration, cherry picking, assumption, faulty reasoning and plain lies. There isn’t time to go through and knock each one on the head but the worst of this fluff has been debunked many times, try your state department of health, most have a vaccination myths web page. A detailed response here is not warranted as most readers would glaze over and Choosegood has shown that he/she will never engage, so nothing will be achieved.

Consider just one broad aspect of this, the overall effectiveness of vaccination has been demonstrated many times. Small pox is gone, polio is nearly gone, rubella, haemophilus and many ‘childhood diseases’ are greatly reduced. Some of these diseases do return from time to time. You might think this shows vaccines don’t work, it isn’t that. They return for one simple reason - people get slack and/or start to believe the anti-vaccs propaganda and don’t have their children jabbed. Whenever there is a new outbreak it can be traced to that cause, it has happened many times. Choosegood it seems wants us to go down that pathway.

There is solid evidence that vaccination has saved many thousands of lives. The matter has been studied to death. When there are some reliable studies that show that getting rid of harmful electromagnetic effects by walking barefoot on the ground or having a chiropractor crack your back will prevent the flu (or do anything useful at all) I will pay close attention. This kind of advice may not be harmful in itself (except to your wallet) but if it makes people stop getting vaccinated then it is.

And so after a long and torturous trip we return to where we started from, which was the Choice campaign to prevent unproven medicine being practised by quacks on the unwary. This article is great case study and I commend it to you.


#31

The Truth about Cancer website is really the UNtruth about cancer.. The ‘experts’ on this website are not leaders in the research of the medical fields they seem to have opinions of, and generally are part of the multibillion dollar vitamin supplement industry. Their views or opinions support their business interests.

Notwithstanding this, in relation to their relevations about the flu vaccination, this website has factual information (not conspiracies) about the ingredients of vaccinations and risks. It also contains references to scientific/medical research papers which support its claims, rather than posts of so called experts on the same website making the claims.


#32

A quick note to those following this thread - whether you are considering the flu vaccine, other vaccines or health in general a reminder to please do so in conjunction with a legally qualified medical practitioner :man_health_worker: :woman_health_worker:.


#33

However there are some ‘legally qualified’ practitioners who have wandered, just as in there are some excellent GP’s, some wanting, and some in-between.

Most do a very good job, but just ‘legally qualified’ is only the first part of a proper litmus test.

Counterpoint example in dentistry, many dentists recommend electric toothbrushes (dominated by Oral-B recommendations) while a few advise to use good old manual brushing. Lots of dentists have free give-aways on their counters (usually Colgate and Oral-B products) so they may or may not be swayed by ‘company sponsored research’, or they may be following best practices and be right on. Both sides are ‘legally qualified’.


#34

I knew this would attract a comment :slight_smile: . I decided the phrasing from the Comcare.gov site would be appropriate, but I appreciate the nuance you have added.


#35

For example: http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-ln-doctor-license-threat-20180524-story.html

In other news, my cat hissed at me the other day, and instantly my gout was cured …

18 days on and no ill effects …


#36

[quote=“matsp003, post:5, topic:15484”]
I’ve never had a flu shot (no real intention too until much later in life etc), just let my immune system deal for the most part… [/quote]

Ever visit a sick friend or relative in hospital? You can be spreading the 'flu without even knowing you’re infected - and it is deadly to some people. The other visitor who walked past you, heading to intensive care? They pick up the virus from you, and a few days later spread it to their very sick loved one - you’d feel guilty, if only you knew. Then of course there are pregnant women and young babies who don’t deal very well with serious infections.

If it’s a couple of days it is not influenza. I had the 'flu a couple of years ago when I failed to get vaccinated through a range of circumstances. It will put you in bed for about two weeks (although if you take some of the post-infection medication that’s around you can reduce this to 14 days). Real influenza is not fun!

Most people will have no reaction to the 'flu shot, except sometimes a little muscle pain.

  1. How do you ‘get healthy’?
  2. How do you raise your immunity (other than with the vaccine)?
  3. What is “the right thing to get over…” influenza, other than keeping your fluids up and resting?
  4. Influenza is a viral infection - antibiotics are useless against it.
  5. You immune system will learn how to deal with the strain of 'flu you have - but it is a constantly evolving virus, so that generally won’t be much use ‘next time’.

You’re seeing the wrong doctor. What are their qualifications, by the way - are you seeing someone with recognised medical qualifications?

Total bullshit! Do you have a source for this claim?

Names please. All doctors are registered, and if they are making statements that are contrary to medical evidence then they are subject to sanction and potential deregistration.