Oh. Yes, thats right. As mentioned above, I got a quote for the work and it was going to be about $2500. I decided not to bother at all, after that. My fusebox has no circuit for an electric stove. Th least expensive alternative is to get rid of the stove entirely and put a cupboard in, with appropriate benchtop, and yes, have a benchtop cooker. I have a microwave which does convection and grill as well as MW but sadly its not the oven replacement I hoped for, It will all work out in the end. Its a matter of prioretising my very limited funds. I think maybe I’ll call the gasfitter on Monday and see about having him remove the stove and cap the gas supply off in the kitchen and work from there.
The Asthma Australia report states:
‘Using high-efficiency range-hoods could reduce the amount of childhood asthma associated with gas stoves from 12 per cent to just three per cent.’
So essentially a 400% reduction in risk from using an efficient range hood, which most homes have these days provided it’s not recirculating and the filters are cleaned regularly. Impressive but 12% is probably already on the unlikely end of the likelihood scale and 3% is probably very unlikely. There’s possibly a greater than 3% risk of bad things occurring due to other causes like staying inside gaming too much while breathing dust and mites, or exposure to other substances known to cause respiratory illness - diesel powered car by-products anyone?
Only a 400% decline in risk from gas appliances, not a total 400% decrease in all risk. They were specific in describing which risk factor was reduced “childhood asthma associated with gas stoves”.
Given that we have some of the most expensive electricity in the world, an exhaust fan is probably a more practical solution for most people in Australia.
Yes, I was referring to risk in the context of the report. What I perhaps didn’t state clearly is that a 3% chance of catching asthma is a very low in terms of all risks so the report appears to present gas appliances in a particularly negative light.
I put forward the idea that as gas stoves have been pinged for creating an unhealthy indoor atmosphere then Choice should be making this know widely in its remit to advise consumers widely.
Yes/No?
Choice could/ should go further and actually not cover gas burning applainces that vent into a house citing the research.*
Yes/No ?
Now one has to accept thatresearch in other countries may not be directly relevant to Australian conditions but it should not be ignored. Particularly if they are using meta-studies versus a single one-off.
This article from Slate is first rate, mentions the Australian report and summarises in depth and deserves to be read in full despite its’ length.
” The cumulative evidence was enough for the venerable New England Journal of Medicine to publish an editorial in January recommending that “new gas appliances be removed from the market.” It was co-authored by Howard Frumkin, a former director of the CDC’s National Center for Environmental Health, which is responsible for investigating environmental drivers of illness and promulgating guidance about those risk factors.”
- I realise that comparison sites are earning money from recommendations and linking their sites to commercial ones but the consumers, and their health, has to be far more important.
I’ve read the US published document. Also the University of Queensland referenced published article, which I’ve linked. They are very informative.
The work of the UQ staff relied on Meta Data and external studies. Their conclusions:
Conclusions: Exposure to damp housing and gas stoves is common in Australia, and is associated with a considerable proportion of the childhood asthma burden. Strategies for reducing exposure to indoor dampness and gas combustion products should be communicated to parents of children with or at risk of asthma.
Similar to many other Asthma risk reduction strategies the study recommendations are for “parents of children with or at risk of asthma”. There is no recommendation to remove gas appliances from Australian homes. There are further recommendations within the UQ “Comparative risk assessment modelling study”
There are limitations within the scope of the study relating to the sources and types of data referred to. The study team has explained these in some detail.
The Australian Asthma Foundation recognises the potential for gas appliances and other combustion sources to contribute to asthma conditions. It currently provides recommendations and advice on their use.
The study reported 38.2% of Australian homes have natural gas connections and a further less than 10% use LPG. When Choice reviews gas appliances - cooktops, hot water or heating it is these members who would be affected.
References:
The following are links to the published article and a summary.
And
Simple answer is No.
Many products impact on indoor air quality such as cleaning chemicals, any product with fragrances/volatile organic compounds, furniture which release formaldehydes when new and the list goes on. If Choice stopped testing or reviewing products which can impact on indoor air quality, the number of products Choice tests will diminish quickly.
Choice however raises potential risks of some product uses when it tests…like it did with the gas heaters.
Many user manuals for appliances also provide information on risks and how to manage them as well.
Many consumer products have risks, and consumers need to be aware of the risks.
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i pointed to this article as not mentioning air quality problems. [quote=“diesel.patrick, post:19, topic:23514”]
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I am impressed with the detail gathered together here : ) The incidence overall in Australia may well be lower than in countries with colder climates but it still seems to exist. Bottom line for me [ having an asthmatic son and having cooked on gas in his youth] is that the risk is avoidable PROVIDED parents are aware of it. The choice of induction hobs now really negates the advantages that gas used to have over electricity - and given you can buy a very effective double induction hob for just over 100$ …
The suggestion that people read the manuals - at all, or after purchase - seems hopeful to me ! I do hope that th einformation here is utilised to warn potential purchasers .
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This is the first manual I found while searching to give an idea what it says about its use…
It makes it quite clear that adequate ventilation is needed when using a gas cooktop.
Choice could but where would it stop. Should they start placing notes like ‘one needs to be careful as the appliance may get hot’, ‘caution should be taken as trays within an oven may burn your skin’, ‘don’t let children play with XYX as it could be dangerous’ and the list goes on. These risks also exist but spelling our every known risk associated with a product points towards a ‘nanny state’. Consumers need to read a manual/user guide…and if they don’t, it is possible that they are also unlikely to read anything on the Choice website.
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If more needs to be done on this, should the leadership come from the Australian Asthma Foundation and it’s associated medical experts?
The Asthma Foundation appears to be well aware of the risks.
There is certainly a need for a better understanding that both house hold dampness and the use of gas appliances can increase the risk or severity of asthma conditions.
The modelling was clear in stating:
Exposure of Australian children to damp housing and gas stove emissions is common, and is respectively associated with 7.9% and 12.3% of the total asthma burden in children aged 14 years or under.
My highlight - I’ve read as a contributing factor for 1 in 8 instances of childhood asthma. The same modelling suggested that effective ventilation strategies EG use of suitable range-hoods for cooking would significantly reduce this contributing factor to approx 1 in 30 (3%).
It’s certainly something for the nations medical experts to look at. They have been very effective in their health recommendations in response to Covid.
Iis an interesting point as to where does a consumer body start in educating/advising consumers of drawbacks to products. My argument would be that it should be done early in the cycle where people are looking to buy a hob/oven of some sort.
It is where the thinking person reviewing products needs all the information to make a balanced decision for themselves.
To say that having bought a gas hob and then read the manual may happen but it is after the buying choice. Also the warnings as per the Fisher & Paykel manual are rather generic and some blindingly obvious. But consider this - are they likely to voluntarily add a warning that there is an increased risk of asthma? That burning gas produces additional moisture and many pollutants into the house?
As for Asthama Foundation leading - I do not see that they would normally be in the buying process which surely is the vital time for consumers making decisions. In that respect Choice is the huge potential amplifier of their message and research.
The question of “nannying” surely is addressed by saying -“We provide the information, you make your choice”. Arguably the Shonky Awards are a nannying action for the benefit of consumers. Shonky Awards are straightforward, well publicised and easy to comprehend. I think they are a wonderful thing for exposing bad behaviour by corporations - or more precisely by the executives…
Science is complex, evolves constantly, is hardly ever properly covered by the media, and particularly when dealing with health needs to be presented straightforwardly where it is relevant to the consumer - that is before purchasing.
Perhaps you should make your argument directly to the Choice Board.
Whether there is a need to change anything today, Choice the Consumer Organisation is free to discuss with our nations medical professionals and make a responsible decision.
The information is available from a number of sources should one chose to do some homework before making a purchase.
What about other products which also emit chemicals or particles which may cause asthma or trigger the condition…this includes things like foods, cosmetics, animals, native vegetation, VOCs, living in urban areas etc…should they also have labels about being a trigger or increase the risks of asthma.
Why single out gas appliances when there are similar risks with natural or man made environments/products?
Why would say asthma be more important than labels of other health conditions which may be caused or triggered by any product?
Starting to label every product may mean that one needs to read an arm long list to ensure that they are happy to make a decision about the product being purchased.
At the end of the day, there is enough information available publicly for one to easily find out what the risks are with and whether a gas appliance should be installed in a residence. If one also has it professionally installed, the installer would need to install the appliance to meet current standards (AS/NZS 5601.1:2013 - Gas installations - General installations)/practices in relation to adequate ventilation of any gases from the appliance. If adequately ventilated, the risks of their use should be able to be effectively managed.
I also recall last year watching a cooking show where they moved a gas BBQ indoors into the lounge room because of rainy, windy weather outdoors. Maybe if one looks at labelling, there should have been a banner at the bottom of the screen indicating not to do such at home, that it was a dangerous, may cause asthma, may cause carbon monoxide/dioxide poisoning, may burn down the house etc.
It is highly likely that the regulation of gas appliance installation and its ventilation is very different that that required in Australia, meaning in other countries, there may be very different outcome in relation to ventilation and risks.
How can I test the level of nitrogen dioxide in my kitchen?
How big is your budget and what is the source you are concerned about?
Cheap home use NO2 monitors are not available. Expensive industrial grade portable monitors for NO2 are available. The easier to use digital (industrial grade) testers typically require regular calibration.
The lowest cost solution is not to measure the NOx. Measure Carbon Monoxide instead.
Digital carbon monoxide monitors for in home use are readily available. If the level of CO displayed is low, the level of NO2 will be several times less. It’s a simple solution, for in home use.
Note:
When a hydrocarbon based fuel is combusted in free air it produces large quantities of CO2, small quantities of CO and lesser NO2, and even smaller quantities of NO and some other compounds.
In the previously referenced tests of combustion products from in home gas combustion the Carbon Monoxide (CO) produced is several times higher than the NOx.
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