Food certification discussion

Product certification is used for a number of purposes. These are often through third parties which have specific requirements or criteria at allow a recognisable logo to used on a particular product. These purposes include for:

Note: the above examples are not an exhaustive list of potential certifications available to the product producers/manufacturers.

If one spends time, there are dozens of certification or labelling programs available to producers/manufacturers to differentiate their products or to allow them to open new consumer markets.

It is also worth noting that some of the industry associations also charge levies (some allow use of their labels on products) which are used to support the industry. Support may come in the form of research, marketing, export advice etc. Governments also charge levies on some products to recover costs associated with their administration. An example is those charged by the Commonwealth Department of Agriculture and Water Resources.

Some of the costs to business are voluntary (such as organic or Kosher) or compulsory (such as some industry levies).

As outlined in posts above, many businesses chose to participate in a voluntary certification program as it can enable their products to be exposed to new markets. New markets usually means higher product demand, which potentially improves the income of the producer/manufacturer and also particularly allows Australia’s food excesses to be exported to countries where there may be local food product deficits (or the food is not grown locally).

A business would not usually chose to participate in a voluntary program unless there is a net increase in profits (namely, increase in the producer/manufacturing business profits after any costs associated with participating in the program is considered).

Choice also has information on some of the certification/labelling programs here.

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Do you buy anything from Kellogg, or eat corn flakes at all? You may want to read about the company founder and his inventive brother, and the company’s practices and beliefs over the decades. Similarly Sanitarium - and presumably you already know about Quaker Oats. There go most of your breakfast cereal options, if you’re choosing not to eat food that has been adulterated by religion.

Ever bought any gold or diamonds? What about oil - did you make sure you knew which country it was coming from, to ensure you were not helping to fund a religious government?

It is pretty much impossible to stop your money from going towards some religion or another; blocking one particular option seems to me to be doing little to express your opinion except as it relates to that particular religion.

While many of us share your belief that the world would be better without religion, we do not choose to cut off our noses to spite our faces (an action that was allegedly taken by members of a Scottish nunnery who hoped to avoid being raped by the invading Vikings - who instead burned down the nunnery, with nuns inside, out of disgust). You are hurting your own options as a consumer, to little if any benefit.

(A cheese exporter that decided not to get halal certification would similarly be cutting off their nose to spite their face - excluding themselves from access to major cheese markets without any commercial benefit and without affecting the supply of cheese to those markets.)

Finally, I suggest you should choose carefully when deciding which industries to attack. Remember: blessed are the cheesemakers.

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not actually attacking anyone. However we prefer to know how products have been adulterated with and what before we buy , and choose those products whose manufacturers deliberately choose not to adulterate their products we things we don’t like. This especially applies to things we eat. Manufactures who choose to adulterate their products with substances or processes not traditional in Australia should be prepared to say so and consumers are then free to choose. Great Ocean Road and Coles cheeses have chosen not to jump in this particular new sales tool , and we reward them for it. We also choose not to eat things we know are adulterated with palm oil or antibiotics either. So the the general point, Consumers should be able to know what products we eat are adulterated with/by , and choose accordingly. And comparative consumer reviews of products should list contents - including religious processes applied to food. I imagine a lot of the consumers buying because of halal certification would be horrified if the food had been also blessed by a priest of another religion or sprinkled with holy water as a marketing tool.

Halal certification does not involve adding any new ingredient to your food - including ‘holy water’, which I would indeed be annoyed by because I don’t know where that water has been. This article, which I understand has already been posted earlier in this discussion, makes very clear why a company might seek Halal certification - and what this involves for the cheesemaker.

As for what is ‘not traditional in Australia’, do you mean in Australia of the last 200 years, or Australia of the last 60,000 years? In the long term, everything is ‘traditional’ - but we often view ‘traditional’ as ‘what my last couple of generations of ancestors did/knew/ate’. In fact, your diet now is nothing like what it would have been 100 years ago. Additionally, Australia is a multicultural country, and businesses have to provide for people from a range of cultures and backgrounds.

I am unsure what your objection is to palm oil (Google suggests the loss of rainforests?), but agree that antibiotics have been and continue to be misused enormously. In fact, my suspicion is that this has led to all sorts of unintended health consequences for human consumers. Unfortunately, I have no idea how to avoid meat that has been fed antibiotics - I cannot recall anything on the labelling to indicate whether my chicken was fed antibiotics.

Finally, I do have concerns about halal - and kosher - treatment of cattle and sheep. I am not sure, though, that our ‘traditional’ methods of slaughter have been much or any better than these religion-driven practices - and would certainly love to see the day when farming escapes from the current ‘factory’ processes that it has adopted over the last 50 to 100 years and that ignore the welfare of animals. I heard a story recently about meat being grown from stem cells, and maybe one day this will be the normal manner in which we get our beef, chicken, pork, etc. Of course, there is another debate looming before that kind of practice becomes ‘traditional’.

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Yes they have. Great Ocean cheese is halal certified, as well as much of the Coles branded cheese range. While I haven’t checked, as Coles doesn’t make its own cheese but enters into supply contracts for such products The manufacturer of their cheeses is most likely halal certified and the same or similar either is despatched as Cole branded or under the manufacturer’s own brand.

It is probably good you didn’t know as it makes no real difference. If you were Muslim, it would make a difference as one would then have the confidence the cheese could be eaten to meet ones own beliefs.

Such certification occurs after product development, not before it…products are not specifically changed to allow halal certification.

It is certified to broaden the market of the existing product.

For example, there is no difference between (pre and post) certified milk, veges, fruit, vegemite or other products, or between two brands of the same product, one which is and one not certified.

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The last time they did this, I believe they said it was for the benefit of the consumer because they wouldn’t eat so much chocolate which might be bad for you. I don’t buy Cadbury anymore since I found out they pay extortion money to a HALAL organization. Started to buy Whittakers but Cadbury seem to use their clout with the supermarkets and the other brands receive minimal display , if any.

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Interesting comment as Whittaker’s chocolates are also halal certified. Refer to their FAQs on their website…

Choice has covered Halal certification, it is worth reading this information from an impartial and independent organisation. If you class the Commonwealth government (who manages Halal certification in Australia) as exhorting money, then that is your prerogative.

The very small cost for certification increases the market opportunities for the companies who chose to have their products certified. These increased opportunities increase their profits which more than covers these small certification costs.

There are threads on this community which discuss halal certification and what it means for the consumer. It is also worth reading these threads.

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I still buy lots of products with certifications I’m not interested in.

  • Certified Organic
  • GMO Free project certified
  • Halal certification
  • Kosher Certification
    And so on.

In my experience none of these labels effect the quality, value or human impact of what I’m buying so I don’t factor them in to my decision making. In a way only buying products without those labels is itself falling for marketing tactics.

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Thanks for the update. I was not aware about Whittakers being HALAL also. Another one to cross off the shopping list.

Honestly as a consumer there’s not really any particular reason Halal certified chocolate is in any way inferior to non-Halal chocolate. All avoiding it achieves is artificially inconveniencing yourself to get a product that may well not be as good or as cheap.

And if you are worried about the human impact of the certifications on your chocolate, picking something made in/close to Australia and picking Fair Trade options is going to have a far greater impact on the world than whether it’s Halal (as Halal only means it’s free of Pork, Alcohol and a number of other ingredients.

Also remember the whole point of Choice is to fight for consumer rights. And it’s an important right for Muslim/Jewish/Vegetarian/Vegan etc. consumers to have clear labeling that lets them determine what is permissible under their belief system imo

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Rubbish…I am not saying that the food is ant different because it is HALAL certified. I am saying that I don’t want to contribute to the cost. All funds received for the certifications go to Islamic organizations or the people who control these certifiers(and there are many of those) even though the vast majority of the consumers don’t require it. I also question why the majority of the major companies in Australia, who pay this religious tax, dont label their goods showing that they do. Cadburys used to but now don’t. That, to me is an attempt to hoodwink the public. If you want to believe what you do, that’s fine.

I suggest that you read a post from Choice on Halal certification, as well as other posts in this thread.

It is as much a religious tax as other form of certification were licence fees are paid for the use of logos etc.

The Commonwealth Government website on certification is also worth reading…

It states “The funds raised from certification applications can be used for a variety of purposes beyond the payment of usual business expenses such as salaries, taxes and superannuation. This can include providing funds for a variety of charitable and community causes. The Committee noted, in a 2015 report on third party certification of food, that ‘evidence indicates that there is no direct link between Halal certification in Australia and terrorism funding”.

A person who is not Muslim does not pay for the certification. The increased market opportunities and profits raised through these extra market opportunities (that being those who buy Halal products) more than covers the costs of certification. If this was not the case, a business would not certify their products as it would impact on their bottom lines.

Unfortunately there is a lot of misinformation broadcast by various groups in Australia. That is why reading information from reliable and independent sources, like Choice, is useful.

There are also 1000s of commonly bought products which have been halal certified, and may or may not have labelling indicating such. It is highly likely that everyone’s pantry contains some certified products. There are also websites which contain lists of products which are certified, but don’t know if they are up-to-date like this one:

http://www.halalsquare.com.au/groceries/index.php/

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Well my point is the food is no different, the human impact is no different, leaving only the issue of cost.

And my suggestion regarding that is just shop based on price. If your issue is Halal increasing prices, then just pick the cheapest product you like. Because those that aren’t certified aren’t always better value. Additionally as mentioned above there are dozens of certifications and labels. Why single out Halal?

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My point is that, where I can, I will not support a company that pays money to organizations under the guise of religion. As I have stated, this contribution funds only Islamic organizations and to this I object when the bulk of the profits and, in turn, certification costs come from ALL their customers the majority of whom gain no benefit from these huge sums of money. Follow the money. Why should we be supporting these companies. I am sure they would do fine without being extorted like they are being. It is a rort. That is my belief and no matter how much anyone attempts to sway me, it wont change my mind. Perhaps you will look at the whole charade for what it is…a con.
It appears that we will agree to disagree.

Life is full of choices.

Some food companies selectively sponsor one sport over another.

Many companies favour male participation sport over female participation.

The cost of these arrangements are substantial and tied to massive ongoing advertising deals.

Some sports choose to extract massive fees from media to access their product. It’s not sport. It’s a massive business and a massive rort.

These costs in the millions are spread across thousands of everyday products at great expense to the consumer.

I dislike profitised corporatised sport that masquerades as a fake symbol of egalitarianism and freedom. It is anything other than free!

The spend is proportionate to the value and turn over.

The consumer foots the cost whether the individual supports a particular sport or code or gender based competition.

How many turn off adds promoting sports gambling or refuse to buy products that associate with horse racing or professional boxing or …?

There would appear to be many other more pressing issues in life than being concerned with whether a food product is certified gmo free or organic or halal. Each has a process to follow and each has a cost.

Products are not typically labelled with the sports they sponsor or political parties they donate to or in so many other ways.

To suggest a business cannot seek and agree to any form of endorsement with another business or group challenges all of these arrangements.

To suggest they cannot do so so on the basis of a belief or need, be it Vegan or nut allergy or religion or love of cricket is unacceptable.

I am not into heart foundation tick healthy eating options. I will buy what I need independent of the tick, which always comes with an added product cost. If you choose to eat unhealthy, it is your choice not mine.

I doubt any one needs to agree to disagree. We simply need to make our choices.

It is good that other Australians have available information they need to purchase products with confidence that the product meets their needs, what ever the preference.

All consumer products would be many times less expensive if we were to ban all promotion, paid advertising and sponsorship. Consider the quackery behind vitamin supplements from Swiss. They add much more to the cost of a product than any Halal certification every could.

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Not so much related to marketing tactics as much as appealing to those gullible enough to believe campaigns that bigots and conspiracy mongers of all sorts start and perpetrate, without doing (or believing) honest research.

I presume you steer clear of Kosher also? How about Christian certified? as @phb previously posted?

I don’t like supporting tax-free business such as religions, but at the same time I try not to shoot my own toes off to make a point so I just ignore the certifications whether they are there or not. They are nothing more than business decisions to appeal to certain markets, and in the absence of certain certifications it takes a product out of the respective market.

Slights of hand, magic, raw beliefs, understanding the meaning of life, whatever, seems to become religious dogmas to some, and that will not change.

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I stopped buying Cadbury products since they went Halal. I do not believe in forced funding of any religious body. There are other non-Halal options available.

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Technically any product you buy funds religious organisations at some level. Organisations like Catholic schools get money from your purchase through tax that is used to fund them.

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Hi @john.blakey, I have moved your post here as this existing thread is about product certification.

There are many myths on social media about what halal and its certification means. Some of these myths have been covered in the rest of this thread


As @Peterchu has indicated, it is not possible to do a weekly shop without ‘funding’ of a religious body in some way, either directly or indirectly. Also, buying a certified product doesn’t mean one is forced to or agrees with the underlying cause. It also doesn’t change the quality of the product, who gets the profits nor who owns the business. Certification is a marketing tool which generally adds no cost to a product, so it is not possible to substantiate an argument that one is funding a particular product through a purchase.

If a business say donated $1 for every product bought to a particular cause, then it may be possible to make such claims.

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There is no funding of any religion involved. Please read the posts at the head of this thread that go into the details.

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