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Effects of climate change on the consumer


#247

These all can lead to climate change which is why they are used to muddy the waters, but anthropogenic climate change places another layer onto other natural climate changing events. There has also been recent reports (if I have time later I will see if I can find them again) about the effect of fluctuations in the sun on worlds climate. Some scientists believe that we are about to enter a natural sun influenced warming period (600 years of natural warming cycle)…which will only be added to by anthropogenic effects.

This I believe I raised somewhere earlier. One needs to read a broad range of information from a broad range of sources as there are positive and negative effects of climate change. One can easily read only a few which support ones own beliefs to draw and argue ones own opinions.

This is where the IPCC work has merits. They review all available information and they assess the likelihood of the effects of climate change. The more an aspect has consistent scientific reporting, the more likely the affects will be similar to the consistent outcomes.


#248

The Lomborg school of denialism would have us delay indefinitely. It’s past the time when we should have stopped denying that there are very good reasons why the rational and decent no longer argue. Delay betrays; we need to get on with mitigating the effects.


#249

NT mangoes now ripe in the middle of winter.

Climate change? Move along folks, nothing to see here.


#250

It’s been unseasonably warm in SE Qld too.
The frogs are still calling, and the summer rains came late in Autumn through into June. Plenty of breeding water. While I have not seen a brown this month yet they must be out and about too! We all need to be extra careful, when usually the snakes are well hiding and too cold to move fast.

Love mangoes, so good news for lovers of tropical fruit and Asian greens.

I wonder if that will be so well received by lovers of traditional European vegetables. Too hot to grow it might require a change in diet or a premium cost for imported product. Or perhaps a solar powered refrigerated cool/cold house where the backyard glass greenhouse once stood proud?

Yum, mangoes with lots of coriander salad! :wink:


#251

Unseasonably or just the new standard of the season? What we may expect into the future may be the new standard rather than being what we used to get in the season. If we become more tropical (or hotter than tropical), we may not get rains when we used to, less variation in seasonal changes re temps and so on. What we had may no longer be what we get.


#252

Unfortunately not climate change, but result of agricultural science research. The answer:

The chemical used to bring on early flowering is paclobutrazol. The NT DPI has been carrying out research for a number of years to see if they can induce early flowering, as early flowering means earlier fruits for market when the highest prices are available to the grower.

More on the NT DPI research can be found here:

It also appears that paclobutrazol is potentially has endocrine disrupting properties. While chemical treatment of mangoes to alter flowering may be good to satisfy market demand for the fruit, there are potential risks if not managed appropriately.


#253

Did you mean “unfortunately” or “fortunately”?


#254

Either way, one is damned :wink:

The unfortunately was in relation to the thoughts/comments that it may be climate change.


#255

Well they can just stop using it then. It’s stuffing up the climate down here too! :rofl:

P.s. (edit note added)
Per the ABC Rural reporter,

Dr Cameron McConchie, who leads the Department of Primary Industries mango agronomy group said the research found climatic conditions were still very much the key to successfully manipulating flowering in mango trees.

Not so simple, there is a climate factor, but not so obviously linked, as dependent.


#256

Yes, quite simple.

The climatic factor is mangoes flowering is typically temperature dependent. This is why mangoes, as well as being low temperature intolerant, are not grown in cooler climates. Some plants such as stone fruit are the opposite and require a certain chilling period to trigger flowering and fruiting.

Other plants can be day length dependent…and some soil temperature dependent.

In relation to early season mangoes, flowering has been induced by a chemical treatment to overcome temperature dependencies/triggers. Being NT, with warm/hot climate, the ripening will be more or less the number of days after flowering rather than temperature influences like those in southern growing areas…where cooler seasons can delay ripening/harvest.

In relation to climate change and mangoes, southern growing areas ripening periods may become more consistent from year to year if the ripening time temperatures have less fluctuations…namely less cooler periods which can prolong ripening. This means ripening/harvest will be less influenced by temperatures and nore dependent on days after flowering. It may shorten the peak time availability of the fruit in such cases and if warming is consistent and widespread.

Edit: What is also possible is if the climate of more southern growing areas in northern Queensland and Western Australia becomes like that in the NT, there may be opportunities for mango farmers to also chemically induce flowering to bring any mango harvest forward. It appears that this will be only possible in areas where the flowering to fruit setting and ripening period is not temperature dependent (namely not through periods of cool weather) … otherwise the yield may be lower and/or fruit will not full mature until the trees are exposed to suitable temperatures.


#257

What would you nominate as positive effects?



#258

As I have outlined on a number of ocassions, refer to the IPCC reports. These reports, the consensus of current science (noting that the next series of reports are due in the coming year (s)), discuss the challenges associated with climate change, and potential options for its mitigation and adaption. It also raises some of the effects of climate change, both which are positive and negative impacts. The IPCC also acknowledges both potential positive and negative impacts exist and also suggests that there is consensus that negative impacts are likely to outnunber the positive impacts.

As also outlined, one can’t just read one particular viewpoint which might support ones own opinions, without also reading/reviewing published science with may have a range of different and alternative scenarios and outcomes. Fortunately the IPCC has already reviewed a wide range of different publications, modelling scenarios and outcomes, established consensus and the probabilities of each of the ideniified potenital impacts.

I suggest that the IPCC reports are read if one wishes to understand the current scientific consensus, the impacts (positive and negative) of climate change and potential mitigation and adaption options. The reports can be found using the links in earlier posts.


#259

There’s nothing in those reports that I’d call a positive effect. Particularly in comparison to the negatives.

While being careful to avoid the manipulative and deceitful. Speaking of which, I was amused to see this from Lomborg himself:
“… he seems determined to portray me as devious, deceptive, and intellectually dishonest”
which nicely encapsulates my opinion of Lomborg and his followers.

Lomborg was responding to Howard Friel’s dissection of his arguments. There’s a bit of a review here.


#260

What I struggle with here is there are two reference articles and whether they explain the early production of fruit as being any different this year compared to previous years.

  1. The ABC Rural Report on research into promoting a longer production season through flower manipulation. The research program over five years had only recently concluded. It is intent on more even production over the season.

  2. The NT, DPIR PDF article re the use of a chemical to promote better flowering. The chemical referenced is paclobutrazol. The article dates from Sept 2006. That is not very recent!

So the chemical has been in use for more than 15 years. But this year is different?

Further, the recent research program appears to identify the onset of flowering to periods of cooler weather. Some trees will develop flowers naturally and early given suitable climate conditions. The research suggested that if the chemical was applied consistent with these identified periods, it would improve the performance of the chemical and increase the quantity/quality of naturally occurring early flowering.

Neither of these articles or the recent ABC article on mangoes to market from the NT specifically attribute the availability of the crop to a specific intervention that has moved the flowering or fruit set period. The suggestion in the two referenced growing articles is that even where there is early natural flowering aided by the chemical treatment fruit development is still subject to climatic conditions. Evidence was that early flowering trees produced fruit that matured approx 2 weeks prior to much later flowering in the same environment.

It is reasonable to suggest that the early development and maturity of the fruit is more dependent on the warmer than usual winter up north than any other factor. Intervention only provides the potential to increase the volume of the first pick. Nature still reigns.

It’s also why mangoes develop later the further south along the east coast. It’s to do with summer temperatures.


#261

No different to a number of previous years. Here is a ABC news article from 2013…i am sure there are others maybe even earlier

It is possible that the ABC is reporting a media release from the NT mango industry to promote/‘communicate’ the coming of the early mangoes from NT. The ABC possibly should have disclosed where the information came fromnas their charter prevents advertising.

I suppose the other remarkable/coincidental point is the dates of the articles are similar…towards the end of July. I suspect the NT mango industry publishes and forwards its media releases around the same time each year.

Doing a quick news search, there appears to be similar ‘news’ articles about the NT early season mangoes over the past few years as well. Looks like this news is not new, but old news.

When I first read the article my immediate thought was a mango tree’s climate change response…but quickly found this was not the case with some research, i wonder if the ABC deliberately did not disclose the chemical induced flowering to trigger early season fruit for this reason. Namely allow the reader to make up its own (possibly incorrect) impression of why the mangoes were early. If this is the case, it is unethical or mischievous reporting by the ABC. Alternatively I can imagine the NT mango industry putting chemical triggered flowering in their media releases as it may raise more questions than they are willing to answer.

From a consumer perspective, a lesson to be learnt is not to initially interpret or deduce meanings from information provided about climate change from one source, but to check its authenticity is supported by consensus and also that the inferences created are in fact true.


split this topic #262

29 posts were merged into an existing topic: IPCC reports, CO2 based energy production, the consequences of action or no action


split this topic #274

3 posts were merged into an existing topic: Nuclear power


#275

While not a Consumer type power supply the new Tesla Megapack which Elon Musk has recently tweeted about which can be directly linked to renewable energy sources to act as a power supply/generator. This should allow faster retirement of fossil fuel burning generators so decrease the amount of carbon entering the atmosphere. That would be a positive benefit to all people.

Tesla have put up a web page about this new product at:


#288

An article regarding China’s goals for capping emissions and the resultant decrease in deaths in countries downwind.


#291

Health effects of climate change.