Apple - Shonky nomination

I am gobsmacked that a company of the size and (I thought) reasonably good reputation of Apple would lie to consumers about their rights: I bought an iPad mini for $1009 just under a month ago. When I received it, I attempted to charge it and expected it to be functional straight away as have all my other purchases over the last FORTY years. Despite repeated attempts at charging (never got to a full charge, even when charging for 24 hours, and lost its charge within an hour or two even if not being used) it was effectively unusable considering it is meant to be an “on the go” device. I upgraded the OS & did all the troubleshooting I could. Gave up and asked for a resolution (told them I was not happy with the idea of a repair as I felt the device was defective I did not say whether I wanted money back or replacement at this point as we didn’t get that far. They shut down the conversation by telling me I had no rights at all).) edited here as what I originally said concertinaed what happened and misled some readers who responded quite harshly. Here’s SOME of what happened - I can fill this out in detail if anyone wants to know. 1. contacted Apple via Chat .They wanted me to get into troubleshooting which in my experience takes hours. I refused saying that the device is defective if it does not work out of the box with the correct iOS and I was not interested in owning a device that has to be patched up somehow. I got nowhere.

Asked for escalation and was told that someone would phone me. They did the next day. Turned out it was not an escalation but another tech person playing the same broken record. I asked them to escalate (deja vu all over again) so was put through to Sales. No they would not help me as I ONLY HAVE 14 DAYS FROM DELIVERY DATE. I went on and on about how they were in breach of Australian Consumer Law - item not fit for purpose, not of merchantable quality, can’t impose a 14 day limit for resolution. Told no and no and no, I argued and argued and argued.

In the end after a long time I was told they would make a “one time only exception” and would refund contingent on collection from address to which it was delivered. (NB the refund suggestion came from them - had not been mentioned by me. The argument was about the 14 days) I pointed out that this should not be an exception and I was not going to be grateful. I told them I had tenants so could they collect from an alternative address where I would be. No, NOT possible. NO WAY> It’s the ONLY way they do it. So we had a silly argument about “what if I had sold the house”? In the end they agreed to collect from the place I AM. But this took repeated refusals on their part.

The active misleading about consumer rights was reprehensible. It was just because I kept on about escalating the issue, the law, consumer rights and their ridiculous attitude, and would not shut up that I got what I wanted. SO I wasted hours to achieve what should have been a no-brainer. The worst thing though is that people not as knowledgeable about their rights, or less persistent, would have ended up with a lemon and no refund. This stinks.

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Well in defence of Apple, you do not have a right to a straight refund under consumer law.

You have a right to a remediation, which could be repair, replacement, or refund at the discretion of the supplier.

Given that Apple makes and sells many millions of these devices, they would not be inherently shonky products. You maybe just happened to have bought one with a fault. It happens.

If you bought one in the first place, so you wanted one, why not accept a replacement if that is what was offered?

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I’m puzzled. You know (mostly) the law, and that Apple gives a 14 day refund no questions asked period… and you found that it wasn’t working properly pretty much straight out of the box. Why on earth did you wait a month?

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I’m puzzled too: the device wasn’t charging straight away you got it, you had 14 days for a refund, yet you didn’t make a claim?

Then they made an exception for you, but the place of collection didn’t suit you and again you got your own way…

There’s many posts in the community about not having been able to get even a ‘reply’ from a merchant, and not for lack of trying or persisting…

I’m glad the way things turned out for you, but I also see Apple as being flexible and accomodating.

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Gaby, I didn’t make a claim within 14 days because (1) I was away when it arrived so lost 7 of the 14 days and (2) I thought I should upgrade the OS in case that was the part of the problem, which given the charging issues took a lot of doing and (4) I wondered if it was the cable so had a few tries at that and (5) my life is busy so I did not have hours at a time to try to solve the problem.

As to your comment “Then they made an exception for you, but the place of collection didn’t suit you and again you got your own way…” with respect, the house is tenanted so it was impossible as I explained in my post. In fact the collection point I suggested was a major capital city instead of a distant country area, so better for them too. I think you are being a bit harsh on me.

My Shonky nomination was for Apple not offering me any resolution at all but telling me that 14 days was the end of my consumer rights which was not true. Not because there was a problem with the device.

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Sue W, Why “on earth” did I wait almost a month? because (1) I was away when it arrived also lost 7 of the 14 days and (2) I thought I should upgrade the OS in case that was the part of the problem, which given the charging issues took a lot of doing and (4) I wondered if it was the cable so had a few tries at that and (5) my life is busy so I did not have hours at a time to try to solve the problem. My Shonky nomination was for Apple not offering me any resolution at all but telling me that 14 days was the end of my consumer rights which was not true. Not because there was a problem with the device.

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I know I did not have a right to a straight refund. I would have been equally happy with a replacement. A refund was what they offered me once we got over the 14 days business. So I accepted. Please don’t assume, then criticise me for something that did not happen. Obviously I wasn’t clear enough. My issue was the fact that they actively misled me or tried to about my consumer rights. and offered no resolution at all as my approach to them was outside their 14 day deadline.

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The 14 day offer confuses the issue.

This is a ‘change of mind’ money back offer which is separate from Apple’s manufacturer’s warranty, which is 1 year I believe.

Your original post indicates you “asked for your money back” after the 14 day offer was past.

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SONY fined $3.5million for telling consumers they had 14 days - this is in relation to software but it’s the same point: Sony to pay $3.5 million penalty for misrepresenting PlayStation gamers’ rights | ACCC

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The OP contacted Apple asking for a ‘resolution’ other than a ‘patch up’.
After long arguments Apple came up with the refund suggestion without it ever been mentioned by the customer.

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I guess you didn’t see the original post. It has since been edited to remove the bit about asking for a refund.

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2 posts were merged into an existing topic: Apple Shonky PM

I don’t see any reason for this to be considered for a Shonky nomination, or in the category of SpotAShonky.

Just a problem with a defective product handled as per the company procedures, which I must say, seem very accommodating to the OP.

I have never bought, or used, an Apple product, but consider them to be a company with decades of reputation that is undeserving of being labeled shonky.

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I’m tired of arguing. I def could have worded my original post better, I did not specify to Apple if I wanted money back or replacement. I did say I didn’t want a repair as I was nervous that there was a fundamental problem.THEY eventually offered money back after arguing that all my consumer rights ended after 14 days. I didn’t expect an attack on this site .

Yes because what I originally said wasn’t accurate

Your experience with Apple with your brand new and defective iPad adds to that from others in the community. We are all better informed for it being shared and the revised details.

My one experience with Apple for warranty was very different to yours. It required some extra effort. I’ve mixed views on the Apple experience. For those who have ready access to an Apple Store (22 in Aust?) it offers more than any other brand. Useful for those with little tech know how or interest.

There are various criticisms of the online experience. These include the 7 day complimentary support and cover (commences on date of order unfairly according to some views) expiring prior to or soon after delivery. Apple’s 14 day return for a full refund policy however starts from receiving your device, (Apple stores or on receipt of delivery from Apple). It’s not unique to Apple. There are businesses also offering similar change of mind (conditional) refunds, if not fully satisfied with the product.

The outcome with Apple of a refund and pickup for return at Apple’s cost is consistent with consumer rights for a product with a major problem. The ACCC does provide the retailer/supplier a right to assess any defective product before agreeing to a remedy. The remedy can be a full refund, a replacement or repair depending on the nature of the problem. It’s not limited by Apple’s 14 day unconditional refund period.

The ACCC provides an online tool and guidance.
Repair, replace, refund problem solver | ACCC

Is an iPad battery not fully charging and rapidly discharging from first use evidence of a major problem? The several weeks elapsed since delivery or few days in use are not relevant. Following the ACCC problem solver determines a claim can be made.

It’s interesting to note Apple make an exception for a longer returns period each year?

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MarkM Thank you for a balanced thoughtful reply. As I thought I had emphasised, my issue wasn’t the faulty product as such, but them insisting that I had no rights after 14 days which was just plain wrong. I was surprised at some of the ad hominem responses

So was Sony: a company with a good rep who copped a massive fine for telling their customers effectively that their rights ended at 14 days.

I maintain that pulling the wool over customers eyes is shonky and it seems the ACCC agrees with me.

If the reps you dealt with at Apple gave you the impression that your rights to a remedy for a faulty product ended at 14 days, then that is not a good customer experience.
And would be a breach of ACL.

However, my initial comment, and that of several other early posters, was based on your first post (now edited to paint a different story), and that was questioning why you should criticise the company for not refunding your money when the 14 day change of mind refund period had passed.

If you take those posts as being ad hominem attacks on you, then that is not what the term means. The comments were on what you posted. And I guess you were taken aback somewhat by others pointing out the difference between a 14 day change of mind return and refund deal which had expired, and your warranty rights.

I say again, if Apple reps gave you the spiel that your warranty rights ended at 14 days, that would be wrong. As per Sony case. But your original post did not indicate that.

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