Indeed as my electronic hobby usage is very small voltage, the risk to me is negligible. Still getting the tech to check if they can use any particular product can do no harm.
For lanolin use my cousin uses Lanotec around ingress points on the AC systems he installs and services, he says it has the required dielectric properties for that use. It is not to be used on the board. Reapplication every 6 to 12 months to remain a good barrier.
The reason for it’s effectiveness is that the geckos don’t like the lanolin on their feet.
Your PCB will have a mix of AC & DC voltages on it, i have had my Toshiba ducted in my home for 7 years & i’ve peeled no less than seven fried geckos & one rat off the PCB with no damage to the PCB.
Action Corrosion don’t publish the dielectric rating of the product but it’s been design specifically for PCB’s & i have had no issues with manufacturers voiding warranty with this product.
Similar for my experience with designing and etching PC boards, years ago. There’s a substantial range of products available including tested conformal coating systems. RS Components is one national trade supplier.
Re
The following is a link to the sprayed version Data Sheet.
Is your unit coated with action corrosion? BTW i have the affiliation with the manufacturer other than using the product on our ducted installation and having great success with it.
Third time, in four years? For a unit brand new in Jan 2018.
What are your options?
To continue to arm wrestle with the supplier with the backing of the ACL vs Toshiba who are using geckos as a cause or excuse. They may or may it be, but Toshiba hold the damaged boards and expert knowledge?
To insist the replacement board is suitably protected with a conformal coating. Providing the coating is certified by a standard/s it is arguable it does not affect the warranty by Toshiba.
To walk away from Toshiba and scrap their product for a different supplier/manufacturer. The intent a unit which is tropic proof and gecko resistant.
After 3 failures is the Toshiba unit really fit for purpose? Is it a major failure and worth pursuing getting the purchase price back plus compensation for other losses? I’m not sure what I’d do. I’d certainly cross Toshiba and their Aussie agent off my options. There are other branded Split ACs well rated by Choice and recognised in the product reliability rankings.
There is also with the frequency of failures noted a possibility of an inherent defect in the unit supplied. Can the Toshiba service agent provide photographic and other evidence in support of how each of the boards have failed. Our Glass House Mountains house is gecko central, ask the brown tree snakes.
I think I see another QCAT Tribunal claim in my future. If I can’t get a monetary settlement from Toshiba directly and FAST, as we are heading into autumn (one more hot, muggy month), I think I will pursue another action.
Hi Chris. Not sure you’re still conducting reviews on the air conditioning front. I am facing my third failed PCB in 4 years of my TOSHIBA split system unit. How many failures does it take for the poor design to be acknowledged? If I have to file another claim with Office of Fair Trading and/or QCAT, what more proof would I need to claim the design is faulty? That issue is paramount but the second issue is the fairness of not covering gecko damage in the warranties. The third issue is whether or not Australia should require that effective products be used to protect the PCBs for ALL units sold in Australia. See for example, the product promoted by TheHVACGuy in this thread. Again, where is the consumer protection in this space?
Perhaps @ChrisBarnes, Choice needs to recognise which products are tropic proof or rated and gecko resistant? Could we ask that it is a seperate award and also in the comparisons regardless of the absolute score?
And which are not.
Is a simple yes/no from each importer or manufacturer the starting point? Is it a difficult question? As a consumer I can purchase a home and check whether it is in a flood zone, a bushfire zone or a cyclone zone. I can’t be sure it will not be inundated, hit with a cyclone or exposed to a bush fire. I do however have the option to not purchase the home, to have an expert confirm if it is cyclone or bushfire rated to Australian standard.
The opening tag on all split systems reviewed might be ‘not tropic proof’ and ‘not gecko resistant’. Not recommended for areas where geckos are prevalent.
Is it a fair ask? Fifteen years of the one home in tropic North Queensland with 2 split and 4 box air conditioners. While they were not the latest technology the tribes of Asian house geckos failed to have an impact. Fujitsu and LG brands. The lay argument here is that pre inverter air conditioners were not as susceptible to gecko damage. The industry set the consumer expectation and standard. Is it acceptable to the ACCC that newer and arguably more expensive inverter technology AC’s should be any less reliable?
As a further point of comparison, most PV inverters are designed for outdoor installation. They include a more sophisticated version of the electronics used to power an inverter AC. Are gecko intrusions a concern? I can refer to the IP rating and a physical inspection of my home PV inverter and rest assured it’s resistant to gecko entry. What is the minimum IP ingress protection level the electrics of an outdoor unit in a split system need to meet to keep the geckos out?
Note: IP55 is a common level available for electric motors installed in an outdoor environment, electrical cable glands, cases etc.
@Redlandsneen and @mark_m , I’d love to be able to be able to provide such ratings but I honestly doubt that we can at the moment. CHOICE doesn’t have the capacity to test IP ratings or indeed “gecko-proofness” itself, and from previous conversations, I don’t think I can expect much response from the manufacturers. Possibly a default “not gecko/vermin resistant” label might be a starting point, as you suggested. I will raise the subject in the next CHOICE meeting with the ACCC in February and see what we can achieve that way. Certainly there is a problem for consumers here that needs to be addressed somehow.
That’s understandable. In assigning an IP rating to a product can we assume the manufacturer to comply with the standard needs to be able to provide evidence the product has passed the prescribed tests.
There are, as usual, independent labs that do the IP testing and certifications to assign a rating. Unlike some standards it does not appear companies are obligated to link their claims to a certifying lab, and their consumers blindly trust the claim. The labs need to be certified themselves, but readers probably saw this coming
Is it illegal? Some companies state they operate to an ISO standard, not that they are certified to that standard. Word smithing. Likewise advertising IPxx may mean they designed it to comply or that they sent product to a lab who tested it and assigned the appropriate rating.
Therein lies an issue - they apparently do not. Does anyone have more to confirm or correct?
My curiosity was aroused as I’ve noted IP ratings included in the specifications of some CEC approved Solar PV Inverters. At least those approved for outdoor installation.
I recollect similar for some of the heat pump HWS (hot water systems). These are electrically very much the same as the outdoor units of split system AC’s. Also one might assume equally susceptible to gecko intrusion and failure?
(@ChrisBarnes Toshiba from memory are the supplier of the heat pump unit fir at least one locally supplied HWS.)
In looking at the specifications for several (not comprehensively) brands of split system AC’s I’ve yet to find one that includes an IP rating. Reasonably the outdoor units must have some level of protection of the electrics from the weather and rain. Silence is golden?
One brand MHI from an example of their current documentation.
Hi all. My claim to the ACCC/Office of Fair Trading (OFT) has been submitted and accepted as a claim worthy of review by the Sunshine Coast Tribunal. Not sure why this is. If OFT cannot secure my demand for refund of the unit, I will have to file a QCAT claim. Thankfully, we made it through the recent brutal week of humidity in Brisbane with no aircon. Now that we are sliding into autumn, I’m ready for a long fight.
Latest as at 4 March. The authorised service agent for Toshiba (SK Air) was instructed by Toshiba to send a technician to diagnose the PCB failure. According to SK Air, if the failure is deemed to NOT be the result of a “manufacturing defect” (eg geckos), it will cost me $300 and if I pursue the repair, probably around $1,500 to replace the PCB. We do not accept this and the Office of Fair Trade has told me in order to pursue a refund, I will have to escalate it to QCAT. So I’m not really sure what’s different this time about OFT’s efforts. We did not have to pay anything last April. It is clear that it will be stupid to pay $1,500 to repair a unit that is defectively designed and doomed to fail again. The warranty, for what it’s worth, is good until next January. Thankfully, we are through the worst of summer and have plenty of time to file our claim. Wish me luck!
8 March and Brisbane is hit with a heat and humidity wave. Do you think I can request damages for pain and suffering in my QCAT claim? We are really feeling the heat in our house. Thank God we have air cons in the bedrooms so we can escape to them. But in the four years we have had the Toshiba split system air conditioning system, we have endured more down time than running time during the hottest times of the year. Go Toshiba!
You can try but it is unlikely to be successful. The ACCC website provides information on type of things that can be compensated…
To be successful for suffering, you may need to prove that it is almost impossible to live without aircon…this may be near impossible since others within the community ‘survive’ without aircon. Whilst being without aircon is a discomfort, its use might be seen as a luxury rather than necessity. It would fall into a necessity if there was some sort of (expert) medical evidence indicating a condition you have is aggregated by heat or lack of aircon. This would then potentially fall into ‘pain’.
As they say, if you don’t ask the question, you won’t know the answer. It is likely the answer will be unfavorable though.
