There is also a massive difference city to rural. In rural areas shops don’t want cash, as it is too much work, especially in small businesses. Also discourages hold-ups/robberies for cash in the store or on the way to the bank. Both our farm produce stores don’t take cash at all, and haven’t for quite a considerable period of time now. In our nearest town in February there will only be two banks left. Other than groceries and farm supplies, most everything else comes by mail order paid for by credit card or PayPal. I have something like 450 purchases from eBay alone, and something like 200 from Bunnings online.
5 Likes
That’s a great point. I also remember handbags being snatched to get to the money in the purse and often items of sentimental value like small pieces of jewellery or photos were lost when the handbag was thrown away never to be found again.
Yes, but the different places members of the choice community live in and their sharing of everyday experiences is what makes this forum great, in my view.
I live in an inner sea side suburb of Melbourne, located within the city of port Phillip which has an estimated population of 103.508 (in 2021) and 1/2 that number are aged between 25 to 40. At the places I frequent very little cash changes hand, and I’m the dinosaur still using a plastic card, most people have a digital wallet. We all move at our own pace and who knows when I’ll be dragged into the new (to me) payments methods 
4 Likes
Well, yes, when I said “moving back to cash” that doesn’t include online purchases (which in addition to credit card and paypal may be done by BPAY or direct credit).
We find the same. We can go many months before finding a business which has a credit card surcharge. When we do, we usually ask or investigate other payment methods to avoid paying any fees (I take the view that the money is better in my pocket than theirs).
Some business also charge when you select Credit, but don’t charge fees when you select Savings or Cheque. This is something worth knowing about as well if you card is linked to a bank account which has sufficient funds for the payment.
We run a small business in a regional town and prefer non-cash payment methods. We find more recently that cash is rarely used for payments - possibly based on the nature of the business and payment amounts. Covid could be an impact, but also the trend towards a more cashless society.
Paying by card is also good for the tax payer as it is near impossible to hide payments (the ATO will have access to every card transaction for data comparison and flagging audits). It means that there is less of a cash economy avoiding taxes.
In relation to fees, we don’t charge any payment fees. It would be tempting, but since most payments we receive are by card, we make allowance in the pricing to cover such fees (indirect charge). Speaking to other businesses locally and far and wide, many do likewise as adding surcharges at the point of sale is seen as a negative customer experience.
4 Likes
For example the rare occassions shop at Aldi in our closest city, if you pay by tap and go with savings account they charge you 0.5%. However if you insert your card into the machine it costs you nothing. Bizarre. Consequently I insert my card to avoid the charge.
If there is a charge for using my credit card, I use an alternate method whatever it is to avoid the charge. The best way to save money is not to spend it uneccesarily.
Cost of taking cash, cashing up the till, counting up the cash, going to the bank is generally more than the around 1% credit card handling charge.
Our local shire council won’t take any cash from January 1, 2023. If you want to pay cash you have to go to Australia Post to pay the amount.
4 Likes
Tap and go, paywave, costs merchants more than traditional Eftpos with insert or swipe and enter pin.
Seems ALDI sets their terminals to reflect that if that is the experience.
1 Like
So when the world is a Bankcard and no cash we will be at the mercy of the Banks…
Our wonderful banks!!
Just like Aldi’s,tap and pay a charge…
The strange thing about all these is
I recall a requirement that in exchange for businesses to charge surcharges on payments that at least 1 method of payment that does not attract a fee must also be available.
But frustratingly they always seem to be the hardest to setup, change and often cannot be done adhoc one off and often involve contacting to do long term direct debit paper work
1 Like
Unfortunately it is an urban or internet myth. There has never been a statutory requirement for a business to provide a fee free payment option…
What is required is that a business can only pass on the real cost of processing the payment. If a payment method does not cost the business (such as direct debit), then a fee can’t be charged if they offer such payment methods.
No it certainly is not a myth. 
A business MUST provide a method of paying the advertised price, or the amount on a bill, in some manner that does not incur a surcharge.
Otherwise they would be guilty of deceptive pricing.
1 Like
That is incorrect and it is a myth. It isn’t deceptive pricing and is allowed for by the existing statutory environment.
If you disagree and run a business, I suggest you seek legal advice.
As I indicated above and from legal advice we gave received, there are no statutory or legal requirements to provide a fee or surcharge free transaction.
The ACCC make it clear businesses can only pass on the real cost incurred with accepting a payment. If a business incurs charges with all the types of payment it choses to receive, it can legally pass on these costs to the consumer.
There are many examples of businesses which charge surcharges with every payment and don’t provide a ‘fee free’ option. The first one that comes to mind are online businesses which only accept major credit cards, but charge surcharges at check-out for card payments.
Many businesses do provide a ‘fee free’ option, but this should not be confused with a legal requirement to do such. They do because they accept payment using methods which doesn’t incur costs to the business and therefore legally can’t charge surcharges/fees for such payment methods.
At the risk of going around in a circle, it certainly is a requirement under the ACCC rules that there must be a method of paying the advertised price as is. Whether it is at a business, or online, or a bill.
From ACCC site for businesses.
" When payment without a surcharge isn’t an option
If there’s no way for a consumer to pay without paying a surcharge, the business must include the minimum surcharge payable in the displayed price for its products. This occurs when a business doesn’t accept cash and it applies a surcharge to all card payment types.
Example of how to display a price where payment without a surcharge isn’t available
A business charges $5 for a coffee, does not accept cash, and all card payment methods are surcharged.
In this scenario, a consumer cannot actually purchase the coffee for $5. For example, if the lowest possible surcharge was a 15 cent debit card surcharge, the price displayed for the coffee should be $5.15.
If the business chooses to display the $5 price, the business must also show the full price of $5.15. The $5.15 price must be clear and stand out so a consumer can easily notice it as much as any statement of the $5 price.
The business also cannot display its price as ‘$5 (payment surcharges apply)’, because it is unclear to consumers what the price of the payment surcharge will be.
If the business also chooses to display prices without including the minimum surcharge payable, then these amounts must not be displayed more prominently than the prices including the minimum surcharge.
Businesses also need to make sure that any higher surcharges for other card types are clearly displayed. "
1 Like
You have answered your own question. The fee or surcharge is included in the displayed price and the price isn’t ‘fee free’ (it includes a surcharge). The business hasn’t provided a fee free option, all it has done is hasn’t disclosed the surcharge/fee has been added to the price - it has been added and is hidden.
The point being made is a business must provide a ‘fee’ or surcharge free form of payment. Such payment methods may include direct debit or cash (in some circumstances), where the business doesn’t incur costs to receive the payment. Saying a business must have a fee free payment method is a myth as even in your own example, a fee has been charged, albeit hidden in the displayed price.
The advice we have is consistent with this and indicates businesses like our own don’t have to provide ‘fee’ or surcharge free forms of payment. Any costs incurred in receiving the payment can legally be passed onto the customer - providing it represents the real cost of payment.
The ACCC does no state a ‘fee’ or surcharge free form of payment must be provided. They provide advice on how to manage payments and pricing when fees are charged for every payment method.
Some organisations such as governments may have policies to provide ‘fee free’ methods of payments, but these are policies and not driven by statutory requirements.
Accepting there is a difference between legal definitions and semantic arguments, when one pays the posted price it can be taken as ‘fee free’ whether it is fee free for all concerned or the cost/fee is hidden in the business’ pricing model to make their price ‘all inclusive’.
If I pay what I see, to me there is no payment fee. If there is an additional surcharge atop the posted price, a consumer would have visibility of that fee and the posted price is not what they would pay so the consumer sees the incremental amount as an added fee.
At the end of the day is there an important and practical distinction between you pay what you see, vis a vis you pay what you see+more re ‘fee free’? Some see payment fees as a cost of business the business can include in their business model, or post their lowest price and put payment costs onto the customer. Paying to pay seems akin to a GST-similar ask and while probably minor, it can be a disincentive to consume from fee-adding businesses.
There are honest differing opinions of the fairness either way, mentioned in other topics. To throw complexity in ‘cash discounts’ are categorised differently in consumers mind sets.
By some accounts even a surcharge for cash would be fine if a business could justify how much accepting cash cost them in time, effort, errors, and banking. While there are laws stating a separate payments surcharge can only reflect the actual costs do any of the agencies audit? For example it has become rare around here to see any posting about what the payment surcharge is, only that there ‘may be’ one, often confined to the payment terminal. OTOH weekend and holiday surcharges are posted even if not exactly according to the legal requirements.
Are the payment systems taking advantage of that to establish their definition of ‘fair and reasonable’ so they are all the same, regardless of the specific platforms overheads? Much to be debated about payments, but this topic is about whether there is a fee to pay. My answer is yes and no, but no and yes.
2 Likes
It isn’t arguing legal definitions or semantics. Businesses do not need to offer fee or surcharge forms of payment. Fee or surcharge forms of payment would be direct debit or cash (in some circumstances) as they don’t cost the business to take the payment and therefore can’t apply surcharges.
Say we have a business that doesn’t offer fee free payment methods (direct debit/cash) - there are many businesses like this, especially those online. If one thinks that not being separately charged a surcharge at a checkout, means they are getting a fee free or surcharge free form of payment, this is unfortunately a mistaken belief. This is confirmed by the ACCC advice posted above.
If a business doesn’t offer surcharge free forms of payment (direct debit/cash) but charges a surcharge, it is highly likely surcharges will be applied to all payments even if they aren’t disclosed.
The statement that businesses MUST provide fee/surcharge free forms of payment isn’t correct and is a myth. Because a surcharge isn’t disclosed as in the ACCC example, it doesn’t mean a surcharge hasn’t been applied.
Possibly businesses should disclose when fees are hidden, say no differently to the financial sector in their PDS, but such isn’t currently required.
I also don’t agree with surcharges being charged (disclosed or hidden). Such fees should be costs of doing business. If a business doesn’t like the payment fees being charged using a payment method they accept, possibly they should review whether they accept such payment methods. This is already done by many businesses which won’t accept Amex or Diner cards due to their high merchant fees.
Not being charged a surcharge separately at checkout is a very different proposition to providing fee or surcharge free forms of payment. This is evidenced by the ACCC example above.
You have made that point a few times and my post does not argue it. At most there is something of a slight of hand if the business chooses to include it in their business model so it appears to be fee free to a customer.
The point need not belaboured further. There is no mandate to offer a fee free payment but how the fee is covered is left to the individual business. If absorbed in their pricing it looks free to the customer even though ‘someone pays’.
A business can include all sorts of components that make up their cost of doing business, including the payment processing cost, to arrive at an end price
But there MUST be some way provided by the business to actually allow a customer to pay that end price without incuring further charges.
All businesses I deal with include the cost of cash, EFTPOS, and Bpay processing into their price. Some add on a surcharge for credit card payment, and all, if they accept it, add an extra big surcharge for Amex.
So whilst technically true to say businesses don’t have to provide a fee-free or surcharge-free payment method, the reality is they have to provide to the customer a price that is actually payable without further charges. Failure to do so is deceptive pricing, and in breach of the ACL.
And that is not a myth, it is the law.
1 Like
This is exactly right.
A business has any number of input (operational) costs - be they rental of premises, salary costs, government taxes, government compliance costs, electricity, … as well as input capital costs.
We don’t expect the business to itemise how those input costs reflect in the advertised price. It isn’t even exactly realistic to ask that question.
But if they advertise to sell at a price, it must be possible to buy at that price.
… except that the business must be able to satisfy the government that any surcharge for a payment method is the real cost of providing that method. So “left to” but “with limits”.
The government encourages businesses not to cross-subsidise payment methods.
1 Like
